Holy Cross 8/1

[Ace]

Josh and I headed up Friday and camped near the trail head. Plan was to beat the crowd up and do French Creek without traffic.

The plan worked cause we didn't see a vehicle till we were headed down.

I made it up French Creek with a little struggle, but not too bad and Josh said "Hey your rear end is leaking" I said something smart ass like "Stop looking at my rear end" when I noticed a pretty bad drip coming out of the axle where the tube welds into the center section. Crap, the weld is cracked. I duct taped the joint to stop the leak and told Josh to head up to the city and have a look and when he got back we'd head down.

We headed down and I was taking it very easy, got to the last major obstacle... Sliding off the shelf I think did in the weld. A few yards later the axle tube weld failed and the tube pulled away from the housing about 2". Crap, what to do?

I managed to drive it about 100 yards and get off the trail a bit, then we strapped the axle shaft back into the center section and I managed to get the tube lined up with the center section again using a few jacks, straps and the highlift.

A few jeeps drove buy and I asked if they had a welder "nope" but the last guy said he had a few welding rods. Thank goodness! I offered to buy them but the guy probably had pitty on me and gave me three rods. I thanked him (THANKS AGAIN IF YOUR READING THIS!).

Josh pulled his battery and I pulled mine. We hooked them up in series and I welded the axle back together. I've never welded stick, much less blind. I was amazed when it lasted 50 feet, then 500 yards, then a mile then to camp, then down I-70 back to Longmont.

I had visions of the axle breaking again when I pulled into the garage but it held fine!

Fun to use the battery welding trick I've read about. Worked very well and you can bet I'll carry a tube of welding rod from now on...:)


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[Brody]

Yeah, it does work nice and I have heard that you can actually weld 1/2" steel with the batteries, but I have never tried it.

A couple of things, though. Watch what you buy for welding rod as there are many difference between the different rods. Get the rod -6018 I believe is about the easiest, no brainer rod to use, but 6011 give a better weld- (Someone correct me if I am wrong and I didn't go out to my heap to see what I have) that will do the best job on dirty metal, which is what you are most normally going to be welding on the trail. Also get the smaller diameter rod as it will generally burn a little hotter. The trade off is that the rod will burn down faster, too, but you are going for strength and penetration, not looks.

As a solution to carrying a full size welding helmet (and in your Zuki you have less room than I do!) you have a couple of options. Buy a face shield that you hold in your hand. These are cheap, take up very little room, and do the job, but you are minus one hand using them. Your other option, though not ideal, is to get a pair of the 'brazing goggles'. These aren't designed for any kind of arc welding, but, if you triple up the lens shield, will work ok in a pinch. You should also be able to get the actual 'welding lens' for these, but will have to go a specialty shop like General Air Service and Supply as Depo or Lowe's don't carry these.

Here is a link to the actual setup:

http://www.4x4wire.com/isuzu/minutemods/welder/

Thanks for this post, BTW.

[Funrover]

Very cool trailside repair! Sorry to hear you had issues, how was the trail other than that

[1freaky1]

We use a lot of 6011, 6013 and 6018 @ work and once in awhile we will get into the 70 series but not to often.

[Ace]

Very cool trailside repair! Sorry to hear you had issues, how was the trail other than that

Trail was great fun, Josh's new rig handled French Creek well.

Very nice scenery up there.

[Funrover]

Trail was great fun, Josh's new rig handled French Creek well.

Very nice scenery up there.

It is very beautiful.. Thinking next time I may camp up there!

[JKimmel]

thats pretty cool :) off topic but sorta related..we were in Cruces for the Chili Challenge a couple years ago and I watched Pat Gremillion (premier power welder) weld up a 609 front end that was coming apart. His welds with stick and a premier lying under a truck on a blanket in the dirt were nicer than I can do with a mig in the garage!

[Andrew]

I did not know about this welding trick. Thanks for posting it!

Now I just need to learn how to weld.

[Brody]

Incidentally, the trail repair posted here was done with jumper cables-nothing fancy- and most of the emergency trail welds without anything special usually get done with regular cables.

[Haku]

Cool, thanks for posting the story Andy. I have been meaning to do so too, but just had not gotten around to it. We had an awesome time on the trail for sure. We were headed up the trail by 7:30am. I slept in the back of my rig for the first time, and it was super cush and I got some great sleep. Nothing better to wake up to then the sound of a Suzuki huh?

I had some airing down to do, and had to get my e-locker manually engaged, as the harness was messed up and I had only received the new one in the mail literally right before I left for Holy Cross. Not too hard, but you do have to lift at least one of the tires off the ground in order to line the interlocking gears correctly.

Right off the bat it was a lot of fun. There are some moderate but still fun little ledges near the beggining. Its a nice warmup for what is to come. A couple miles into the trail, you see a sign saying "it goes from moderate to difficult from here on out". It sure ain't kidding, as the hardest obstacle of the day beyond French Creek and Cleveland Rock is right there. If they don't call it "entrance exam" or something like that, then they should, as its a make or break kind of obstacle. Even the sneak side has some challenge to it, and we saw a fairly built up Jeep break his rear axle trying to muscle his way up on our way down. We saw a FJ40 and Series 1 Land Rover (both of them had some lift and 33's) get up it, but they had to use their winches.

Andy stuck his nose up the main meat line, but just didn't have quite the wheelebase or tire size to get up on the ledge with the muddy conditions that characterize the trail in general. He ended up backing off it, and taking the sneak line to the left. Its still a pretty serious line and looked like a lot of fun. It was my turn next, and I tried the meat line as well. I did end up getting up it, but it was after a lot of work and retries. Its a bit nerve racking, as the you have to go up the ledge on an angle and then turn to go straight. All the time the front end of the vehicle is wanting to slide downhill as you get the rear wheels up on the uneven ledge with a big dugout hole below it. I attribute most of my success getting up the line to the lockers and low-low dual transfer case, and just being able to slowly search for traction without having to gun it. We saw a group of Jeeps try this later in the day (most of which were big expensive tube buggy style ones) and they had to give it a lot of throttle to get up. Here are some pics of Andy (didn't get any of myself, hopefully there are some on Andy's camera) of this obstacle. These are him trying the main line, the sneak is to the left tigher to the tree.

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1ptBH4ldStCVYwWBn2JYmf4vzpsO7Tdwx5zedlI2T0CDniJsU dcrWXtVKsTJaxxf_dSBBuPFyrVdDSXg0hj0IzMg/1.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p5edUApL1p001g5oJ5iMA0XxCe2w3zcvMP9DVja60FHbDZP0 WBQxIYtzXjecnHuyqtSJaXWSqeN3rGTO7OeyYpw/2.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pMLpGwyxlSGykO2YXNqDgynzUbQLABrRVJXVflO9-Kc5szu5rK5-fil-Id1MuuW6np67raGzy4H5vhVhOce3-3w/3.jpg


More to come in a bit......

[Haku]

After this, its just fun boogy trail. Lots of little rock ledges and great views, but nothing too hard.

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pbaijyEjvsXHZ5dJXE22qjg-tCYDRgpZa9CiGDKbm2eZh5C-nNCQ9kUlY605JFS4Qq5fJxDZXfFFSqaHHpX34Kw/4.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pnuR-8cKg_PAaDwBY0m7_8c0ib3U7lEIJwJHjx_ZXP8eOxs5JS7xyXv WDu6QbtmlZWQBHNsGyfk4i-l_yyvAAwA/5.jpg

After a couple miles of this kinda stuff there is another "fun, harder, but easier then the first ledge" on the trail. Looks like there some really hard and scary lines you could take over it. There is one way to go that is still fun and hard, but offers the most safety. The harder part looks like you'd get really tippy and off camper, and the only place to land in a flop is a rocky creek bed. Still a fun section even in the "easy" section though. Here are some pics (again just of Andy till he posts his pics).

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pYQalYwhdbIBoV-C_B5iBbIOysM1HQHwE6Szt--4R6YQG-QPyvEz3powT1_GM9umrFMkJMhy5MAEBZV0Q8qQZYA/6.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p-gMiWcUUm1qLriezJw4bSXn_Ogbfp9kNl9N4w2It8MkU9-9HL8XpKQBGnpLd4pze5x-kPhVxmtYss9HbvKW9Ew/7.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p6gT6nzqd7v6KM5gxwe-xhd-mJTnA-LzyF2uU7db4L7CWsKp9O7Nx2VrIFUQHsg1-yHwR_Ssh5eJi8qiEW_LwRw/8.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pAQSeVVKCxHukb60_YBOR--83oEr6wdcc5bSvaVI9-TM8YLxUZ4GaLqw-Jw1IbtSJwVvHRb9enPPs0rPHpOo-sQ/9.jpg

[Haku]

Next up is French Creek. Definitely the hardest mandatory obstacle if you want to make it to Holy Cross City. You literally drive across the big creek bed, right before trying to get up a jumble of rocks. Its a combo of big rocks, mud, low clearance. Definitely a good idea to have rock sliders at the least. I know I came down pretty hard on my rocker panel once. You essentially have to get up over a pair of rocks, one of which has a big undercut on one side. Its mostly a matter of just trying slightly different lines till you get up over the rocks. This is where Andy's rear axle broke. You do have to give it a decent amount of throttle, and there is quite a bit of flex too. We definitely heard a large pop at one point, but none of the wheels stopped turning, so he got the rest of the way up the obstacle. Definitely noticed a large stream of oil coming out of the connection between the axle tube and pumpkin. Pics of both of us.

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pMkz_dolqkGrQu3FRwud8_vQV-Q5JtBsuAohiW0sctmS_01CLnZr28zplWSvNTa9XhoSmOJPVEhP K50NF8WeU0g/10.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pC0A39CbJWo3tUTTV_aOzVVgCVuOJXGF2dpLUi3Nwst1nYq4 as_eOgE0_9Gs-Op1fUIoASDvq1dXTeF7eY2Umow/11.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1peDO7BRuf6psB_nOzaDuGL170iIcnXykP8xecG_5ZYLutjMX 9aUCa9n0bUxtDwixFifeGoShV58IR8p2Cm0SvFQ/12.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1plbpEsvhSAxekxDhiX2QJbbAZlzUx1FPlO3_IMgPVdksfGzi uDNjGxzYGcxeTVMIj-23stuM2lK2aioBRQ9ujnw/14.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pc8m5sJRfwUsZStqYg8DTQV04QSbFhPMXGXNswLl4Rf8Fggt cRLIQPxiK1-RJCrvDzOdlyjDzgol2K4XDteaA-Q/15.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pCxAlcY7q3GaL6nZTFnrQxYMCMsac7RiKJThvlRWvhp1Sn6P CZdkM96JNxLl8znhs6PaJ2SYWTEJQKDgwlKnttw/16.jpg

[Haku]

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pCxAlcY7q3GZprnK3xxdlLbvMdUVYhhFC5OORHOfZve5tlAL Y6xPR_WNZuKR-a7SlaZYVJUUlEskpJaq230EUSg/17.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pX1nWp74WqttjR9i_MI2w_PswBkY5ioXKEBB0armL2WT8I2S tSU5I8bf5TLqUYEEoMZmfXIKJFLo2kvqj2SxBqg/18.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p5c85fJugGPdDkcqppopr4Q6NKXI0W1LbhSFzriYSxR4JQr7 ujlXja7Ve1wet2ka2_MhVYWWXyf7R9_SeKHf20g/19.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1psHs10cTdygHzJ01ta8-5p-z-jWANGD2P4wESomCGuVp4qc0-Rz99nZRUfJbuf7sBIDDhwQX0p1VgaZ8y7Lo__g/20.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFKcHJtA6lWNZQlGdtzjCvmA6VsfwGOxdVVhfGvsLffyh_SA gZAFkfIA5GZ0E7dyBM_wk0za7Crxly3IC2bGH4g/21.jpg


http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pWDxU8VK2RY2ZJI3tYufhT_1Sq7915c0cHn9xYQvhKnOf0DM 66ZOuQQT4vqKB20jC1VWaB3FDHk4nhMBpNfMnDA/25.jpg

Definitely a fun obstacle, despite the break.

[Haku]

Andy decided to call it quits here and not go any further. Never having been on this trail before, I definitely wanted to finish out the trail. There are some great little obstacles after French Creek. Another off camber ledge that would roll you off into the trees if you weren't careful and some mud holes and such too. I was blasting through most of it, so as to not make Andy and Kelli wait for too long. Holy Cross City is pretty cool too, with some neat historical buildings and lots of abandoned mining equipment. I also decided to go have a look at Cleveland Rock, which is further up the trail from Holy Cross City. The lead in is a kinda scary off camber part, that leads up to a big rock slab. You can go up the slab, or there is another tippy part to the left. I can definitely see how its roll over central. Since I was by myself, I decided to just stick my nose up on the rock as far as I could get it, but not try to go up the whole thing. Got out and took some pics too.

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pWtHIoGX5KLmGmvh8oIPvPG2JGjs5RLjRtJkJjQU3dg4M91Q zyK3AlFBRBJ2FvuvVMDnqGFIXc9YkpXMpUJ6-Ig/26.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p4TDykV_kKL8-FO_UkfGOH43pcVHqZfLW55u4p8pOigEowpkhnbXZw2Iuutzpp8 k0d13YYNr9Rj5CJJ1uiPQoJQ/27.jpg

Cruised back down, and Andy was down off of French Creek. Its definitely easier going down this stuff then going up. Same goes for the other obstacles too. You've seen the story about the batteries already, but I'll just add that I was surprised how easy it was to set this stuff up. It did a great job, way better then I expected. Many thanks to the unknown dude in the jeep tube buggy who gave us the Welding Sticks. A few more pics, first of the spot the did the final break, and some more welding ones.

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pV9vywyMSjQngT87bl34xDTiTSoUFjDfcgQKqv9weRpd0kJM zMhVC-6fDgYgiDyQvfodoJTRZj_dIGLseD_-cqw/28.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pMhSwWHLB5xEyNUVWQy1lf8D63NFeKYVznRO1XdvCAZhMuSj kYKPGobTXfDG5HPjqOfjHI5UqZkysYJF-3Bhz5Q/29.jpg

http://hnvaca.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pGGUxkv4wVJXRMyMpG_HncRqjJnvTokcQXiuwO5P8ABbw-aYciBpnlCxigcK_cnxvVmWXtb61sG8182v8KlnHag/31.jpg

Andy took it easy for the rest of the trail, and we finally got down. He said he could hardly tell there was an issue. No vibes or such, and it made it all the way home behind his Ranger. I thought about going up to BV to join the Jamboree, but ended up just cruising back to Denver. Definitely had a great time though, and it was awesome to finally get a run in on this classic Colorado trail.

Josh H.

[Funrover]

Great report. It seems right after French Creek has gotten A LOT harder since I was last up there

[Haku]

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but it looks to me like Ace's rig has a seperate set of link bars attached to the pumpkin in addition to using leaf springs on the tubes. This to me doesn't make sense since they are working against each other when the rear end moves up and down or especially when it articulates. Doesn't this place the rear diff under 2 different ranges of motion? I'm thinking this might have had something to do with the axle breaking. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is a traction bar installed on it, which is mounted on center and is designed to combat axle wrap. It travels up and down with the axle, and has bushes/rod ends that allow it to pivot. So in other words, no it doesn't inhibit the articulation of the axle much. It might have contributed to the break, but I think it was more the fact that its a Hybrid axle and the welds failed. Hybrid meaning the center section is from a Suzuki Sidekick, and the axle tubes are from a Samurai. This allows you to use the bigger and lower reduction Sidekick ring and pinion, but retain the thicker and stronger tubes and axles from the Samurai. Essentially you just stick the axle tubes into the sidekick diff housing, and weld it together (making sure its straight and all that) to hold it together and seal it up. Looking at it, I think the welds are mostly there to keep it from separating, and most of the stress is dealth with by the axle tubes sticking about 2 or 3 inches into the housing. Kind of like sticking a flag pole into the ground and it not falling over. Essentially, those welds broke, and it first started leaking oil, and then with some more stress the axle tube came out of the diff housing. We then put the tube and axle back into the diff, and welded it up to make sure it didn't come apart again. We were about reading to that with a ratchet strap till the dude with the welding sticks showed up. Hope that helps.

JH

[Haku]

I think you'd be right, if all the above was the case. Its not though, and you can't tell from the pics really. As I recall, the traction bar that is installed is made by Spidertrax as seen here:

http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2330/.f

I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing there. The description says that having it mounted as it is with one tube that is mounted with a heim on each end and welded to the bottom of the axle, does not cause all the issues you are talking about. Can't say for sure, but I tend to trust what the guys there say, as they are one of the top offroad manufacturing shops in the world. Again, I could also be wrong. I do think that it was just a failed weld, and is more due to the nature of making the Hybrid axle, and less with the traction bar.


JH

[Haku]

Ok.......just looked on some Zuk sites about this and I stand corrected.

In this case, Spridertrax may not have transfered their "world class" fabing skills over. While their design accomodates as best it can, it certainly puts weird loads on the axles and springs. Check out this thread:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,31821.0.html

Sounds like quite a few people have had issues with this kind of setup, for the reasons you were saying. So much for listening to tech from the company that makes it.

JH

[Ace]

Ok.......just looked on some Zuk sites about this and I stand corrected.

In this case, Spridertrax may not have transfered their "world class" fabing skills over. While their design accomodates as best it can, it certainly puts weird loads on the axles and springs. Check out this thread:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,31821.0.html

Sounds like quite a few people have had issues with this kind of setup, for the reasons you were saying. So much for listening to tech from the company that makes it.

JH


My traction bar is a Sky Mfg bar... It mounts to the pumpkin and uses a tube in tube that allows it to telescope and pivot. The only added stress I can see it impart would be the actual engine axle torque that used to be handled solely by the leaf springs.

I found this crude drawing of one on google images... The red tube is a sliding fit in the black tube.

I put the antiwrap on for the street mostly. I was getting a hard pop when I took off quick. The dif u-joint was moving too much and I was worried it would bind up and snap.

As for the Spidertrax bar, I can't wrap my head around how it works. BUT I've heard it transfers weight better and acts like a traction bar. That could be true but I'm sure it binds the axle. Geckocycles bent his axle in one run after installing his (since then he trussed his axle and no problems)

So, I think the Spidertrax bar could offer better traction than mine. I like things I can see how they work in my mind though, so I went with the Sky.

Also, my axle tubes on the aftermarket hybrid are just butt welded... No tubes into the center section. Seems like a pretty weak way of making an axle. It'll get trussed like crazy when I'm done with it.

Geckocycles and I are working on a jig to line up the tubes. He's a great welder so I'll have him do the critical stuff.

[Brody]

To me it looks as though the sliding tube does the same thing as a shackle set up on a similar style trac bar.

Certainly gusset the axles...both directions if you can. Square tubing is cheap, it doesn't need to be very thick to work, and locks the axle in place.

When you do the gussets, as Ken knows, but you may not, leave the 3rd member in as this will keep any flex down to a minimum. Also stitch weld the gussets in 1" increments, alternating sides.

Yota axles have the same type problems, especially running big meats, dual cases, and lockers. When I rebuild my V6 3rd member after getting new gears and a spool, I am going to add a horizontal gussest much as I did on the Taco axle that is under it now.

Here are pictures of both my front and rear axles, trussed both ways(and you get the clean pictures, too-I just did a much needed clean up of the underside and took a bunch of shots for the insurance company):

[porkchop]

just my 2 cents on the welding rod thing from what i know as a welder 6011 -6010 are very good for dirty steel 6011 being better for ac and 6010 runing best with dc+ (reverse) but if you want to make it stronger and hold for longer you should clean it up nicely after 6010-6011 maybe grind back into the weld a little and cover it with 7018 then youll have a nice strong weld as far as rod thickness goes thinner rods are better for thinner metals because you can run colder without geting stuck simply cause the rod is thinnner and it takes less heat/power to melt it

[Haku]

Great advice for sure. I wish I knew more about welding. Now that I actually own a welding aparatus (bought a Ready Welder the other day), I'll start looking more into it.

My one concern with this specific application, is that it was done in the dirt on the side of the trail with no power tools available, with oil leaking out of the diff onto the welding area, and the axle still full of oil, using two batterys and some jumper cables.

Are the recommendations for welding rods still the same taking this into consideration? Not sure that most "trail fix" type situations will provide for having great work like explained above done. In every situation i have encountered, its been "get it fixed enough to limp home and then fix it for real when you get there".

JH

[porkchop]

right in that situation its just a trail fix and as long as it gets you home then its good enough i will say that was a preety awsome fix ive never heard about welding with a battery but i could see how that would work a good trail fix for sure but not permanent especially since it was done blind. the thing youl find is that alot of people will say they can weld and "it holds" but the fact that it holds doesnt mean anything cause the weld is supposed to be stronger then the metal so its hard to know if a weld is really good unless you know what to look for under the hood and the over all apperance of the end result. welding is deffinatly something no one can teach with words i can talk alot but i cant just put the hand eye codonation in your hands it just takes practice and a good teacher. i learned in job corps ive been welding ever since i first learned stick then mig ive never done tig but i know quite a bit about it since i went to school for it instead of just learning form joe the welder in my garage. so if youve got questions ive got answers and if i dont i know someone who does.

[Haku]

right in that situation its just a trail fix and as long as it gets you home then its good enough i will say that was a preety awsome fix ive never heard about welding with a battery but i could see how that would work a good trail fix for sure but not permanent especially since it was done blind. the thing youl find is that alot of people will say they can weld and "it holds" but the fact that it holds doesnt mean anything cause the weld is supposed to be stronger then the metal so its hard to know if a weld is really good unless you know what to look for under the hood and the over all apperance of the end result. welding is deffinatly something no one can teach with words i can talk alot but i cant just put the hand eye codonation in your hands it just takes practice and a good teacher. i learned in job corps ive been welding ever since i first learned stick then mig ive never done tig but i know quite a bit about it since i went to school for it instead of just learning form joe the welder in my garage. so if youve got questions ive got answers and if i dont i know someone who does.

Cool man, I totally respect the welders of the world, especially the well qualified ones that put the time in to learn the theory and why it works. Definitely something I want to learn more about.

As for welding with batteries, its kind of a given. If you think about it, most welders convert AC current into DC current in order to be able to weld, so the battery just cuts out he conversion step and just provides DC power. I just bought a Ready Welder, which is a portable welder that hooks up to batteries and evidently does really well. Its essentially a MIG spool gun, with battery attachments. Even has a gas valve inside. You essentially control the current draw by adjusting the size and speed of the wire, or by using different combinations of battery voltage for it. For thing stuff and Aluminum, you use 18v (a 12v and 6v in series) and for thicker stuff up to 1/2 inch thick single pass, you use 24v (two 12v batteries in series) and it can even handle 3/4in. steel if you go up to 36v. Ready Welder says that with the 24v setting, you can weld for at least 45 minutes on a set of batteries that are in good condition. I'm pretty psyched about it, and think it will be a good cheap alternative to buying an expensive welder and installing all the electrical wiring needed to power a good one.

So for the "trail fix" application, would a 6010 stick work well? Seems that 5 bucks spent on a case of Welding Rods is well spent and a worthy addition to the emergency fixup kit.

[porkchop]

yep theres nothing better for welding on dirty steel then 6010 and 6011 is simply the ac version of 6010. one more thing to add about 7018, 7018 is a low hydorgen rod so it has to be stored in a sealed container to keep condensation out other wise the rod wont work right at all

[1blusammi]

awesome pictures. I'd like to see the pictures of josh's ride taking on the trail! I have gotta do this trail. Looks so fun! Great job getting the zuk back on the road and getting it home. How long were the trails?

[Medic-5150]

I got duct tape in my truck, but other than that my truck would still be sitting on the side of the road if that happened to me. Good ingenuity guys!

[Haku]

I thought I was picturing it correctly in my head. The slider thing is a good idea to compensate for the length change when the leafs are compressing and extending, but the axle is still being twisted in 2 different archs. The only way I can picture it working correctly is if you have the leafs and the traction bar mounted at the same points on the axle and the frame. Then I'm not even sure that will work. Like I said. For long travel suspensions you cannot mix leaf springs and traction bars and have them work together smoothly. Why not just add another one to the other side, put on a tracbar and some coils and get rid of the leafs all together?;)
My winter project is going to be to get rid of the rear leafs on the Bronk and do coils. Then it'll really be a Twisted Bronk.:D

I hate to say this, but what you are saying is contrary to everything I have read about traction bars. Maybe its wrong, but this system is specifically designed for high articulation leaf sprung systems, and I haven't heard of any problems with them really. It doesn't move in two archs, because the whole traction bar moves forward and backwards on the slipping part of it. It only restricts the twisting movement of the axle, not the side to side or front to back. Its also mounted on the center of the axle, so its on the part of the axle that moves the least up and down. Of course having it coiled and linked in the back would be better, but its hard to do with a Samurai since you have to move the gas tank, plus the cost. In this case, I think it was just a broken weld that did it. Andy pushes his rig a lot, and takes it on high articulation and high stress situations frequently. Maybe the traction bar contributed to the breakage, but I don't think its the primary cause. I will say that having the traction bar takes a ton of stress off the axle shafts, as it drastically reduces wheel hop due to axle wrap, which is the number one breaker of axle parts.

Can't tell if we are looking at it differently, or what, but we seem to have a completely different view of how a traction bar works. Its a good discussion either way though:thunb:.

JH

[Ace]

Andy pushes his rig a lot

Hey what are you implying? Just cause the axle broke on the same side as my fat arse doesn't necessarily mean I was the cause! :D

[Haku]

Hey what are you implying? Just cause the axle broke on the same side as my fat arse doesn't necessarily mean I was the cause! :D

Yeah, that is exactly what I was implying Andy. We all know you spend more time fixing your rig then wheeling it, so that must be the problem:lol:.

While you aren't as bad as some (Gecko Cycles, and frankly, Myself) when coming to doing the hard stuff and really throttling it, you certainly don't hold back and take it on some hard stuff. Thinking about it, not having any trussing on that axle is probably the major culprit for why that weld broke. Any progress on getting it straightened and welded back up yet? Definitely time to add some trussing to it methinks.

JH

[Gecko Cycles]

It's a done deal and perfectly straight.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0yYpqlml6U

We got a little distracted by the Log Splitter! LOL
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm202/geckocycles/hybrid%20housing/

[Haku]

Congrats guys, looks great. I'm sure it will benefit from the trussing you did too. Planning on plating between the tube and axle too? Probably doesn't need it, but its a thought. Also, doesn't look like that traction bar will fit anymore?

JH

[WINKY]

i dont see a log splitter.....:eek::lol:

[Funrover]

i dont see a log splitter.....:eek::lol:

Someone pointed it out to me.. but I quickly lost it again LOL

[Gecko Cycles]

I know that Log Splitter is hard to find and even harder to find again. Where's Waldo?

No plate or box section planned. A single plate welded on the top like Brody's may do more harm than good on this 1/16" wall tube. Welding just on one side of the tube is an alignment nightmare. The pipe we used is about 3/16" thick so it is plenty beef and having 2 trusses will offset the action of the traction bar. A Sky box design would of worked well and been light but we didn't have one and it would of interfered with the Sky bolt on truss. I'm sure we could of figured out a solution though. The truss should fit back on with this design. We got the U-Bolts on for it with no issues. There is one small plate that connects the lower truss to the tube just over the repair but weld. Got plenty of penetration welding through the tube and to the sleeve. Did 2 passes plus the 4 puddle welds so this joint will never fail again for sure. 2 small strut plates on the long side top truss on the sides would be nice to have added to help the center stay on. Welding 1.5" on both sides would not of hurt the alignment and they may get added between the Sky U-bolts when that placement is determined.

I would not question Andy's mechanical design abilities. He is a pretty sharp crayon. Together we make a good team if I can just keep him away from the log splitter.

[Ace]

Thanks again Ken! Ken spent all day Saturday with me and about 1 hour Sunday working on this.

We spent a lot of time making the alignment perfect. Probably doesn't have to be perfect but why not. We joked that my axle is now probably the straightest Sammy axle on the planet. It just might be, without the truss just turning the axle over would deflect the outer tubes about .025"! I'd bet my axles are straight to .015".

A empty rear Sammy housing weighs less than a bowling ball.

Ken makes welding, cutting, fabing etc. look awful easy. Always a treat to watch a master at work. I got sunburned from the TIG I was in watching so close all the time.


Without the log splitter we may have got it done quicker! I'm gonna start hanging out at KB's every Saturday!

[Gecko Cycles]

For the guys having a HARD time finding the log splitter. Hope this helps! LOL

[Funrover]

What are some of the details on the splitter? :D

[Gecko Cycles]

What are some of the details on the splitter? :DLooks to be old enough and he uses it as a bender. It can bend 1" thick x 24" "I" beams at idle.

Andy couldn't take his eyes off of it! :lol:

Have to watch what I say here. That was a PG rated description.

[Haku]

I think you are flattering yourself just a tad with the 24" ;).....what was said splitter/bender doing hanging out in that kind of place?

JH

[Ace]

what was said splitter/bender doing hanging out in that kind of place?

JH

Driving me nuts was what she was doing!

[Gecko Cycles]

Driving me nuts was what she was doing!Not me, she is FAT!:D

[WINKY]

For the guys having a HARD time finding the log splitter. Hope this helps! LOL


nope still dont see a log splitter, dont know what yer talkin bout.... LOL