OCG 9/12, Twin Cone, Wheeler Lake 9/13

[Haku]

Hey all,

So Sepetember continues to be a great month for Wheeling, with the leaves changing and the weather being awesome, its worth getting out.

In this case, its the second weekend in September, and the plan is to make it a trip for the whole weekend, but to make it so that you can mix and match as you want to.

Plan is to camp Friday night, 9/11, do Old Chinaman Gulch on Saturday the 12th, camp again, and then get up and do Twin Cone, followed by Wheeler Lake later in the day. This makes it so that people who only want to do Twin Cone don't have to worry about driving past it to meet or something. There is some great camping at the base of Twin Cone, so its a great place to meet. We can talk details later, but I thought I'd get things going with a thread sooner rather then later.

JH

[Brody]

Having done all these trails a number of times, I would highly recommend them, too. If people plan for the weekend trip, you would see a huge amount of different terrain and get a lot of good scenery in. The trails range in elevation from below tree line with juniper and cedar, to over 12,000 feet on Twin Cone. Wheeler has an alpine lake that the trail dead ends at that is about 11,400' or so high.

There is also fishing in Wheeler as well as Montegomery Reservoir, which you pass on the way up to the Wheeler Lake trailhead. Although I don't fish, I know a lot of folks that do, so: the best fishing is where the spillway comes down into Montegomery Reservoir and the best fishing on Wheeler Lake is off on the left hand side as you get to the lake, over by where the Model A style rig is parked.

All of these trails have been done in bone stock rigs with careful driving. An rig that has some mild lift and aggressive tires will have no problem as the hardest obstacles on all of these trails are easily avoided with a couple of exceptions, notably on Old Chinaman's Gulch.

If you are going to camp near BV, check out the areas on both sides of Trout Creek Pass (Four Mile Area (right side) in Wells books), FS 300 or Bald Mountain Gulch or Mushroom Gulch on the left side. There is camping at the start of Carnage and OCG, but, in my opinion, you might as well camp in the local WalMart parking lot as there is no shade and you are right where everyone stages...the parking lot. Not my idea of 'camping' as I try to get away from people and noise...

For Wheeler, there is some camping right off the trail at the start of the trail, but you are very close to the road. The best camping is at the lake, but it gets crowded and there isn't much room. There is alternative camping if you take a left turn before you get to Bowling Ball Hill and follow that road back into the valley. At the end of the road, up on a hill, is a great spot next to an old mine.

For camping on Twin Cone, there is a FS pay campground at the base, but not only do you have to pay here, it also gets really crowded and the sites are really close together. I believe that there are 'primitive' non pay sites a little past this as well as quite a few places farther up the Twin Cone trail that are free.

[BlackRubi]

We plan to be there. I'm probably a little on the un-modded side to do OCG. I should be good to go on Twin Cone, but I don't really think I'm ready for Wheeler yet, either. Unless everyone thinks that I should be able with no problems. The wife just doesn't want any body damage, and think I should wait to get a lift before some of these hairy trails. We'll definitely be there for the camping, though. Anyone know where they're camping yet. It would be nifty to get a big group together for the camping aspect of the trip.

[AboveNBeyond]

We are looking into the possibility... not to many chances left before real cold nights.

I will let those who have done Wheeler chime in, but I think with spotter help you could easily and safely do it... :thunb:

I don't think my Rover is much higher and I am thinking about it? :o

[Funrover]

We plan to be there. I'm probably a little on the un-modded side to do OCG. I should be good to go on Twin Cone, but I don't really think I'm ready for Wheeler yet, either. Unless everyone thinks that I should be able with no problems. The wife just doesn't want any body damage, and think I should wait to get a lift before some of these hairy trails. We'll definitely be there for the camping, though. Anyone know where they're camping yet. It would be nifty to get a big group together for the camping aspect of the trip.

You will be fine on Wheeler,I have taken a couple different stock rigs up it. OCG we have taken a stock TJ through it, but it adds time to the day.

[Funrover]

We are looking into the possibility... not to many chances left before real cold nights.

I will let those who have done Wheeler chime in, but I think with spotter help you could easily and safely do it... :thunb:

I don't think my Rover is much higher and I am thinking about it? :o

You are totally fine, I ran it a couple times (Doing all obstacles) when I was your size.

[AboveNBeyond]

... OCG we have taken a stock TJ through it, but it adds time to the day.

Think Patriot... :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Funrover]

Not that much....LOL

[Haku]

Wheeler lake you are both totally fine for. THere are easy bypasses around all the big obstacles, but there are still some fun ones to enjoy yourself on too. Randy made it up through there no problem. Don't let the pictures of Brody's rig on its side scare you away, he took the hard line down the hardest obstacle of the day, and was just slightly off line. There is a very easy line just to the left side of it, so its no biggy.

As for OCG, its defintely got some challenging parts on it, but Aaron made it up in his rig I think. The Rubicon shouldn't have any issues I wouldn't think, but I'll leave it up to you on whether you want to try it. Have a look on Youtube (just search for Old Chinaman Gulch) for lots of video of all the obstacles. The only mandatory one that might challenge you more then you want is the last big obstacle called the Chutes, which normally requires you to have two tires way up on a rock ledge and feels pretty tippy. Might have some issues if you don't have rock sliders there. The rest of the obstacles are completely optional, or have an easy line up them. I've seen Stock or slightly modded FJ Cruisers and Jeeps do this, but don't want to push you into trying this. If there was a group of people who don't want to do Chinaman but still want to spend the whole weekend up there, then there are some easier trails nearby to give a try too.

JH

[AboveNBeyond]

So Twin Cone and Wheeler, totally doable :thunb: OCG not so much :erm: (till I get sliders...) :o

[Brody]

The only mandatory one that might challenge you more then you want is the last big obstacle called the Chutes, which normally requires you to have two tires way up on a rock ledge and feels pretty tippy. Might have some issues if you don't have rock sliders there.

And you may very well not have any problems here. When I ran this run at
the stupid Yota Jamboree, the Chutes were so altered as to not even be much of anything. The time before, with many different rigs, only the set up rigs were hiking it. This last time no one hardly slowed down no matter what they were driving. The big rock that you needed to get way to the right to avoid wasn't even there...

Doesn't mean that it hasn't become harder since then or changed in other ways, but everyone I was with was really surprised how easy it was. This was about a month ago..

[Funrover]

So Twin Cone and Wheeler, totally doable :thunb: OCG not so much :erm: (till I get sliders...) :o

When you gonna get those? Jon (4runninfun) and I will build a set for you, it won't take a lot.. they will be what I have on mine.. You can add more.. will talk about if the time comes.

[Haku]

And you may very well not have any problems here. When I ran this run at
the stupid Yota Jamboree, the Chutes were so altered as to not even be much of anything. The time before, with many different rigs, only the set up rigs were hiking it. This last time no one hardly slowed down no matter what they were driving. The big rock that you needed to get way to the right to avoid wasn't even there...

Doesn't mean that it hasn't become harder since then or changed in other ways, but everyone I was with was really surprised how easy it was. This was about a month ago..

That sucks. Hate when people alter stuff like that. THat rock was in there pretty good, so it almost seems like someone pulled it out. If that rock is gone, then its a cake walk mostly, unless you try the harder lines at some of the obstacles.

JH

[Haku]

I'm going up on Sunday to do a pre-run and check it out again with GM4x4lover and company. Should be a some good times, and we'll get some good late season camping in before it gets cold. If you are at all questioning whether you are capable of it, I'll know by Monday for sure, and there are others on here that can say yay or Nay (hehee......get that one?). Sounds like the major mandatory obstacle that more moderately built rigs would have in issue with has changed for the easier, so should be good to go.

JH

[Brody]

Starting way too late for us. This isn't a trail that I want to start late due to all the traffic, especially on a holiday weekend. It would make for just too long of a day, especially with the ride to and from Denver...

Have fun!

[Haku]

So is anyone else coming on this trip? As of right now its just Nay and I on OCG, and BlackRubi and I on Twin Cone and Wheeler Lake. Not sure if anyone else plans on camping at all, but I'd prefer not to do on my own. I know when Chris was messing with the Calendar stuff, that it erased a bunch of names.

Additionally, the Chutes obstacle, which was formerly the one that kept the milder built rigs off Chinaman Gulch, is now wide open and much less formidable. I went up and did a trip last weekend with GM4x4lover and its totally tame and simple now (unless you take the hard line, which is still very doable). So, its a great day for just about anyone thats on this forum, with potential for many different levels of challenge.

JH

[AboveNBeyond]

So is anyone else coming on this trip?

JH

Let me check with the :princess: , we might be able to go? I'd like to. :D

[Brody]

No idea on what our schedule is for this weekend, so I don't know. It will a last minute for just about every run. LaDawn is trying to line up buyers, so she may have showings all weekend...Last minute for us...I'll post..

[colomil]

I really want to get out in the M1009 as I have been busy all summer with the race truck. I will see if the truck is ready to go tomorrow and make my commitment at that time.

[BlackRubi]

We're still planning on going. The :princess: is still a little worried about damage. When and where are we meeting? We were really looking forward to camping with a bunch of people.

[RidgeRunner]

I was one of the maybe's that got erased and unfortuately I'm still a maybe. It's more likely that I'll come up Sunday to do Twin Cone and Wheeler. We'll see.

[Chris]

I don't think I erased any "yes" responses, just "maybes"

I'm not sure what I'll be doing to say one way or another yet.

[Haku]

We're still planning on going. The :princess: is still a little worried about damage. When and where are we meeting? We were really looking forward to camping with a bunch of people.

Lets meet at the Twin Cone camp ground at 6pm on Saturday night? Does that work for you? Hopefully I should be off of Chinaman Gulch and back to Twin Cone by then. Honestly, I do think your rig is capable of getting through Chinaman with no damage, but I'm not gonna push you to go or not.

As it sits, I think its just you guys and me camping that night right now. I'm fine with camping at the forest service camp ground there, or we can go and try to find something further up Twin Cone. I'm sleeping in my truck, so I'm not very picky on where we go. Either way, I'll cruise out and meet everyone out closer to the road. People coming up Sunday morning should cruise to the camp ground just off 285 at the top of Kenosha Pass. Feel free to set up a caravan or something if you like too.

JH

[BlackRubi]

Lets meet at the Twin Cone camp ground at 6pm on Saturday night? Does that work for you? Hopefully I should be off of Chinaman Gulch and back to Twin Cone by then. Honestly, I do think your rig is capable of getting through Chinaman with no damage, but I'm not gonna push you to go or not.

As it sits, I think its just you guys and me camping that night right now. I'm fine with camping at the forest service camp ground there, or we can go and try to find something further up Twin Cone. I'm sleeping in my truck, so I'm not very picky on where we go. Either way, I'll cruise out and meet everyone out closer to the road. People coming up Sunday morning should cruise to the camp ground just off 285 at the top of Kenosha Pass. Feel free to set up a caravan or something if you like too.

JH
I might end up coming up Friday night (afternoon actually), but that all depends on what the wife wants to do. She has some stuff that she wants to take care of before the trip up there. If we do come up Friday, again, when and where do you want to meet. Also....AboveNBeyond we think that you really need to go. Ashley and I want to hang out with you guys, too.

[BlackRubi]

A stock Rubi can easily do Wheeler and can run OCG, although expect a reasonable amount of underbody contact on OCG.
I'm not sure if she'd be into it or not.

[colomil]

How much body damage could I expect on a full size blazer with 4" lift & 37" tires?

[Brody]

Well, I have watched Dave Nay take his 80 series Yota Land Cruiser up and down OCG a couple of times and he didn't have trouble. The tire size is going to be helpful, too. If you have some rock rails, you would have no trouble, but there is one section that you do both coming and going where there is a pinch between a couple of big rocks. Keeping your right(going up) tire on this will keep you body from damage without sliders and careful driving going down will do the same. This is the only spot that I remember where you would actually have to be pretty careful.

Most of the rest of the trail has sections like Eagle Rock-a little narrow with rocky hills. Almost all of the other obstacles, with the exception of the Whale's Tail, are avoidable or optional.

[colomil]

Cool, thanks for the advice! I need to get my rear driveshaft fixed today or I can't go. Anyone know a good cheap driveshaft shop in Co Springs?

[Haku]

How much body damage could I expect on a full size blazer with 4" lift & 37" tires?

Minimal to no damage, especially if you stayed off the hard lines on the optional obstacles. Like Brody said, there is only one little section that will screw with you and where rock rails would be nice, but with a bit of good spotting and careful driving you'd be fine in a stock Rubicon. Any upgrade from there in height and such will negate all of this.

As for camping tonight, I was planning on heading up tomorrow early morning, since no one seemed that interested in going up tonight. If thats changed, then I'm sure we could figure something out. There is decent camping at the base of OCG, or many places nearby to go too. I have some stuff to do today, but should be able to make it up by mid evening time (7-8pm or so, give or take an hour:lol:). Let me know. I love that we had a month to plan for this, and people are deciding stuff less then 8 hours from go time (for camping tonight at least). Oh, and Kyle, if you aren't busy today, Steve and I are putting his transmission back in around noon today if you want to swing by. He lives about 1/4 mile from the Buckley gate off Mississippi into on Flanders Way (off Dunkirk).

JH

[colomil]

Nay, when are you heading up there? Can I convoy with you (I am 20 miles east of monument)

[white collar redneck dad]

As of now I'm kidless for the weekend..but my rig needs about $750 in parts plus $600 for newer tires to be mounted and balanced.
So for now my rig is out for at least this weekend...but being kidless I'm open for being a ride along...hint hint
I was one of the maybe's that got erased and unfortuately I'm still a maybe. It's more likely that I'll come up Sunday to do Twin Cone and Wheeler. We'll see.

:D...let me know if you have an extra seat for navigator and videographer....

[AboveNBeyond]

...AboveNBeyond we think that you really need to go. Ashley and I want to hang out with you guys, too.

It is looking good :thunb: I will know for sure in a couple hours.

[colomil]

I am getting closer! I just got my new CB installed. It is a Radio Shack old-school looking thing with weather scanner. I am off to 4WP to get some pinion alignment shims and I should be good to go.

On a side note, there was a fine looking lady working at Radio Shack (Palmer Park & Powers) so I recommend all you single guys stop by and do some shopping...

[Chris]

Could Barb & meet you to do Red Cone on Sunday? If so, where?

[Haku]

Twin Cone you mean? Yeah, there are several people doing it that way. Can't remember exactly when I said we were meeting, but it says on the calendar entry. We are meeting at the Twin Cone camp ground at the top Kenosha Pass (the one you go over just before Jefferson). You'll see signs for the Colorado Trail and the road to the Forest Service Campsite is to the right if you are coming up Kenosha from Denver. Look forward to seeing ya'll. Is anyone going up tonight? I'm kind of busy helping Steve get his tranny back in, so I'm currently planning on going up bright and early in the morning.

JH

p.s. Charlie, If Dave can't take you, I have room in my rig for ya. Let me know if you want to ride along. -jh

[Chris]

Twin Cone you mean?

:doh: Barb said I want to do Red Cone so I saw what I wanted to see.

Twin Cone & Wheelers on Sunday, I'll have her look at those. :p

[Haku]

:doh: Barb said I want to do Red Cone so I saw what I wanted to see.

Twin Cone & Wheelers on Sunday, I'll have her look at those. :p

If I'm honest, Twin Cone has better views then Red Cone. You can see the whole basin between Jefferson and Fairplay on one side, and mountains upon mountains to the north. Its also a bit more challenging, but not so much that its not fun. Wheeler is pretty nice too. It goes up a glacial valley, and has some really neat mining ruins to gawk at. Definitely worth the trip for both.

JH

[colomil]

Well I didn't have time to get the cool CV rear driveshaft made so I will run it as is. I made a spare rear driveshaft to take with, along with a spare front driveshaft and spare front axle shafts. I will talk to Driveline service later this month about building me some beefy shafts.

I will head out as early as humanly possible since my top speed is 60~65 and even less on hills.

I will have CB on ch4 and my handle/call sign is "colomil" and my cell # is 719-201-2506. Keep an eye out for my army blazer on hwy 24, you can't miss it!

[Haku]

Calendar says meet at 9:30am and leave for the trailhead by 10am, so we'll stick with that. If you guys remember, be sure to add yourself to the RSVP. I'll check it in the morning before I leave, so I know who to expect. I know there might be some very last minute additions, but its at least nice to know if people are coming or not and have a general idea.

Josh

[BlackRubi]

Oh, and Kyle, if you aren't busy today, Steve and I are putting his transmission back in around noon today if you want to swing by. He lives about 1/4 mile from the Buckley gate off Mississippi into on Flanders Way (off Dunkirk).

JH
Sorry brother. I wish I could have come over to help out. I got off work at 5AM and didn't wake up until around noonish. Then I had some stuff to take care of. Let me know if you guys need help with anything else. If I can make it, I'll be there!

[Brody]

BTW, Driveline Service of Colo Spgs downtown is an excellent driveline shop.

Hey Dave..would you or someone else post these guy's information in local vendors? Good for the Springs people to know..

[Haku]

So, looking at the RSVP for Sunday on Twin Cone and Wheeler, it looks like I am the only one going. Is this correct, or is anyone else planning on coming? I know Kyle was planning on coming up to camp tonight, but it says you "had to back out". Kind of disapointing if its the case, since we had like 6 or 7 rigs signed up at one point I believe. I'm gonna be leaving for BV soon, but feel free to post up or call if you are coming along. I should have cell service at some point, so I'll get it either way.

Josh
303 263-3111

[BlackRubi]

I had some stuff come up. I won't be camping. I may still make it up on Sunday. And AboveNBeyond said the same.

[AboveNBeyond]

I am in for sure for tomorrow, is there plans for us to meet and caravan up?

[BlackRubi]

I think there should be. What is the best way up there? If there's someplace recognizable and landmarkish, we could all must meet up there. We just need a time.

[AboveNBeyond]

Well in this thread Josh said meet at the trail head @ 9:30 leave @ 10.

But the calendar says meet @ 9 leave @ 9:30.

I say we plan to be at the trail head at 9 to be safe.

I think there are signs, I have a wells book and will bring it with me. I would look it up now but it is hailing at the moment so it will have to wait... lol

I see it taking me about 1 1/2 hours from home. I am guessing it is about an hour from c-470 to the trail head?

Anyone besides you, me, and Nay going up in the morning?

[BlackRubi]

Not going to be able to make it. We were up waaaayy too late to be on the road by 7AM and make it on time. Sorry everyone. Next time for sure.:(

[Haku]

Hey all,

So adventures applenty on the Chinaman run today. Flopped my rig (only minimal damage thankfully), but otherwise it went well. We then went up to Mount Antero and attempted to camp. Unfortunately this didn't work out, so I came home. I'm feeling really under the weather now, and have some things that I need to work out on my truck before I go out again. This means that I won't be making it to the Twin Cone and Wheeler Lake trail run. I only found out just now that anyone was coming for sure, which was another factor in my decision. Hope ya'll have a good time, and feel free to call me with any questions you have about the trail.

JH

[AboveNBeyond]

... Flopped my rig (only minimal damage thankfully)

Josh, I can't speak for BlackRubi, but when we where askin about possibility of body damage, and people said chances were minimal... I think maybe our definitions of minimal are different. :o :lol:

BTW: I am glad you are OK, so what or how did it happen?

Also, I am also out now... maybe I will take my sons out to something closer to home.

[Brody]

Josh, I can't speak for BlackRubi, but when we where askin about possibility of body damage, and people said chances were minimal... I think maybe our definitions of minimal are different. :o :lol:

Josh does all the hardest lines. If you tackle the hardest obstacles on OCG, there is going to be a very real chance of flopping it.

We watched a Rover flop on the Whales Tail, one of the few obstacles you cannot avoid, when we did the WFTW run. He simply lined up wrong and gave it too much gas, causing his drivers side tires to walk into a V notch. This was a result of bad driving.

There are 3-4 obstacles where flopping is easy to do and they are all avoidable. There is a boulder obstacle just after the 'Baja' section where you can do it either left or right. It is big and easy to flop your rig. The left side of the Whale's Tail is another. Very steep with the rock curving away on both sides. There is essentially only one line up the left side and if you blow it, your rig will flop over. There is also a possibility of flopping doing the hardest left section of the Steps if you manage to get your rig too far sideways..Josh probably did all three of these as his rig is set up to do them.

When you are doing the harder obstacles, either up or down, you are talking about a margin of error that is measured in inches. Very easy to make a mistake. LaDawn flopped our heap on Wheeler when she missed the line by 6-7".

Much like rock/ice climbing, skiing or boarding...or any other sport for that matter. The harder it gets, the less margin for error.

[AboveNBeyond]

I know he does, and I know there is always the chance when your wheeling on some of the trails we run... I was just pokin a lil fun.

[Haku]

Josh, I can't speak for BlackRubi, but when we where askin about possibility of body damage, and people said chances were minimal... I think maybe our definitions of minimal are different. :o :lol:

BTW: I am glad you are OK, so what or how did it happen?

Also, I am also out now... maybe I will take my sons out to something closer to home.

It was very gentle, and actually only did a small amoun of fixable damage. There is a hill that has a super tippy line on it just before it splits to do the loop, and I avoid it going down, but usually have an allright time coming up. Got my front wheels up on it just fine, but as my rear wheels started to climb it, they shifted to the right a bit and fell in a hole. I think i could have saved it if i had backed out quickly, but didn't, so it slowly and gently laid itself over onto its side. It only really made contact just behind the passenger side door on the extended cab portion. Door still opens, and I think I'll be able to get the large dent out with a hammer. All in all, it wasn't a bad way to do my first flop. We threw a strap around the frame, and Colomil just gave a light tug to get it back on its feet. I then drove up the rest of the way. Its mostly funny that it wasn't one of the major obstacles you hear about on OCG, but in all honesty, its the part of the trail I get more nervous on then any other part of the trail even before the flop. I took some pics and such of the aftermath, and I'll post em in the trail report.

Sorry to cancel out on the Wheeler/Twin Cone trip. Between a fubared driveshaft, an engine that needs some work, weather, and having to camp by myself after setting up at 11pm, I just wasn't up for it. We were all set up on Mt. Antero and had some dinner and hung out around a damp campfire. He tried putting his girls to bed, but they were freaking out about the lightening and such, so we decide to pack up and move somewhere else. Ended up driving all the way out to BV again. Unfortunately Greg's rig had a tire blowout shortly after getting off the dirt road, so we had to fix that for him too. Definitely a lot of stuff pointing towards calling it off and heading home.

JH

[BlackRubi]

Wow. Glad you're OK, Josh.
I still feel like a douche nozzle for backing out.
If anyone wants to make a run this week on Wednesday or Thursday, let me know.
I'm not off on the weekend again until the same weekend as Crystal Mtn, Moody, K. Flats.

[Haku]

Josh does all the hardest lines. If you tackle the hardest obstacles on OCG, there is going to be a very real chance of flopping it.

We watched a Rover flop on the Whales Tail, one of the few obstacles you cannot avoid, when we did the WFTW run. He simply lined up wrong and gave it too much gas, causing his drivers side tires to walk into a V notch. This was a result of bad driving.

There are 3-4 obstacles where flopping is easy to do and they are all avoidable. There is a boulder obstacle just after the 'Baja' section where you can do it either left or right. It is big and easy to flop your rig. The left side of the Whale's Tail is another. Very steep with the rock curving away on both sides. There is essentially only one line up the left side and if you blow it, your rig will flop over. There is also a possibility of flopping doing the hardest left section of the Steps if you manage to get your rig too far sideways..Josh probably did all three of these as his rig is set up to do them.

When you are doing the harder obstacles, either up or down, you are talking about a margin of error that is measured in inches. Very easy to make a mistake. LaDawn flopped our heap on Wheeler when she missed the line by 6-7".

Much like rock/ice climbing, skiing or boarding...or any other sport for that matter. The harder it gets, the less margin for error.


Yeah, this was definitely one of the "by inches" scenarios. As I said before, my rig shifted just a bit, and a tire fell in a hole. Had that not happened, I would have walked up it like I did a weeke ago. Pretty interesting.

JH

[Haku]

Wow. Glad you're OK, Josh.
I still feel like a douche nozzle for backing out.
If anyone wants to make a run this week on Wednesday or Thursday, let me know.
I'm not off on the weekend again until the same weekend as Crystal Mtn, Moody, K. Flats.

Well, you look like a douche nozzle, so it works out:D. It would be nice for the future if people could make a decision at least 24 hours in advance before the trip. All of this "I'll decide if I am going 2 hours before the meet time" thing makes it hard to plan things. Its especially bad since this run was posted for over a month. I was a bit concerned that I would have a "no show" situation based on how everyone was talking, which definitely factored into my coming home late last night.

That said, I can go wheeling Thursday, so figure out where you want to go and I should be able to make it. Have a few things to do to my rig between now and then, but they should be done by then.

JH

[BlackRubi]

Sorry about the last minute backing out. I just had some stuff come up and then I was up way too late the night before Twin/Wheeler.

[Brody]

It would be nice for the future if people could make a decision at least 24 hours in advance before the trip. All of this "I'll decide if I am going 2 hours before the meet time" thing makes it hard to plan things. Its especially bad since this run was posted for over a month. JH

Well, I don't like being in the group of folks that can't make up their mind until the last minute, but all of our work (what LaDawn and I have of it) is a lot of last minute stuff, especially LaDawn's. She is totally at the mercy of her clients an other real estate agents as far as when her clients want to look at houses and when she can schedule showings. I don't even know when she is going to be working on a day to day basis.

And my work is so sporadic and far apart that I can't count on having the extra $$ for gas until the last minute either. I am glad I didn't go this time as the 'replace all the front end gaskets in the 84' turned into a 'oh, the starter decides to stop working altogether when I am trying to start it to check timing' project. If I had gone, I wouldn't have been able to buy the starter and this is my work rig.

Oh well, I make no excuses and people know up front that my going is last minute, but I can certainly see the frustration as I have been on the other end of stuff. I am just hoping that people are going to show for the Ellis trip as this was one that LaDawn has been planning her work around and also one that you simply don't want to do by yourself.

[colomil]

...That said, I can go wheeling Thursday, so figure out where you want to go and I should be able to make it. Have a few things to do to my rig between now and then, but they should be done by then.

JH

Where do you guys want to on Thurs? I can probably go if I have my D60 in.