Tire width and packed snow/ice [Archive]

Pathrat

October 16th, 2009, 11:40 PM

I was looking at tire info on the FJForum and ran across a few threads concerning skinny tires vs fat tires.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/wheels-tires/76807-pizza-cutters-rain-snow.html

I know this has been addressed in relation to wheeling but what about on packed snow and ice? Daily winter driving in Colorado generally involves slick packed snow and ice. Solve the traction problem by getting studded tires, winter tires...etc. Sure, but what about size? What if I wanted to get a new set of Geolander IT G072s or some Michelin LTX M/Ss for my winter tires? That would necessitate a change in tire size.

In the experience of our members, given minimal variables in the type of tire, does skinny or fat suit our crappy roads best?

Pathrat

October 16th, 2009, 11:51 PM

I like this article on tire selection

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research/white_papers/tire_selection_rev1.html

4Runninfun

October 17th, 2009, 03:21 AM

i have 255-85 r16 on my truck which come out to about 33x10 r16. i'm a firm beliver in tall skinny tires. that article above sums it up pretty well.

Brody

October 17th, 2009, 05:47 AM

I like the regular tires best for DD on highway, icy, snow packed roads. I am a big fan of big fat tires off road...

gm4x4lover

October 17th, 2009, 07:44 AM

skinny tires for the win in the snow.

KnuckleHead

October 17th, 2009, 02:51 PM

I like bigger/fatter tires myself but I know in some place's they are worse and more prone to taking a slashing on the side wall.
As for winter snow/mud, I've heard that they should be thin. They cut through better and don't "float" over the snow/mud. And if you really need them wider you can always air down.....

Mporter

October 17th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 09:26 PM

Might I go ahead and suggest you consider the Michelin's over the Yokohama's....my dad has had awful experience with them and the LTX's I have on my FJ62 right now aren't too bad, but I haven't been driving it all that long.

Thanks. I am a fan of Michelin LTX's also, but loved my set of Yokohamas. Was your dad's trouble with the ice tires?

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 09:31 PM

skinny tires for the win in the snow.

I like the wording on this reply :) and I recall that you do work in a tire shop.

... They cut through better and don't "float" over the snow/mud. And if you really need them wider you can always air down.....

Makes sense. Thank you everyone for your input.

ShutUpHippie

October 17th, 2009, 09:35 PM

I am of no help at all... I run MTs on both of my vehicles, so no matter what, they will most likely suck on the snow and ice.

Just run MTs only for a while, then no matter what kind of tire you switch to, it will stick to the road great! :D

JeffX

October 17th, 2009, 09:37 PM

M/Ts are worst on the hardpack. I recommend Revos, Big O AT's or Yokohama Geolanders. You could also get a set of dedicated snow tires.....

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 09:43 PM

Skinny tires for ice/snow on the DD!!!

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 09:44 PM

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 09:46 PM

Skinny tires for ice/snow on the DD!!!

Thanks Aaron! Got any for sale? :D

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 09:49 PM

M/Ts are worst on the hardpack. I recommend Revos, Big O AT's or Yokohama Geolanders. You could also get a set of dedicated snow tires.....

I run MTs in the summer and ATs the rest of the time. I have had two sets of Geolanders. I wasn't that thrilled with the AT but LOVED their MT for offroad. I couldn't afford to keep them; the soft compound wore down too fast.

I am looking at formulating a new plan: some tall skinnys for winter, 32 inch tall, not sure if I want 34 inch tall then deciding whether I want ATs or MTs for wheeling season. My MTs are great in the mud and fine in Moab, but aren't great on gravel and granite.

4Runninfun

October 17th, 2009, 10:08 PM

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 10:18 PM

path i dont know what size your rims are, but i'm pretty sure they are 16", if that is the case you should really look into the 235-85 size they come out to be about 32x9 bf goodrich makes their famous AT in that size and i've seen that tire prove itself very well in the snow.

I have the tire size calculator open in another tab, tirerack.com ratings in the other. :) My rims are 17 and so far in the first tire I am comparing (Pirelli Scorpions Ice/SNow) I can get 265/65R17 which is 31 in height x 10.43 in width. I would like to find something a bit taller, 33", but I have not found it yet.

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 10:21 PM

Why must you have 17's....LOL if you had 16's I would have your answer

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 10:49 PM

Why must you have 17's....LOL if you had 16's I would have your answer

My search results agree with you!

How many people run the BFG ATs all year? How are they on packed snow and ice? I am kind of conflicted between having two sets of tires: one dedicated for trail and one for winter as I hate the packed snow on the roads in CO and one set of all year tires, each sacrificing some features to have one set of tires.

4Runninfun

October 17th, 2009, 10:49 PM

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 10:59 PM

looks like 285/70 r17 is going to be your best bet.

The AT's are an outstanding all around tire. The sidewalls aren't quite as robust as an MT but with a little extra caution it's nothing to worry about. they ride well, balance well, and unless you are in thick mud they are going to get your though any trail in CO or UT.

That is the current size I have. I was looking at a different tire size for any potential snow tire I might get. The tallest I can find is a 31 by about 10.3 for skinny factor. At least those would be cheaper! I appreciate all your input on this.

I did find BOTH of my tires in size 255/75r17 (32 x 10.04) for about $40 LESS PER TIRE than the ones I have now. grrr

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 10:59 PM

My search results agree with you!

How many people run the BFG ATs all year? How are they on packed snow and ice? I am kind of conflicted between having two sets of tires: one dedicated for trail and one for winter as I hate the packed snow on the roads in CO and one set of all year tires, each sacrificing some features to have one set of tires.

I run the BFG AT's all year, I love them! :thunb: They do excellent in snow/ice. I drive to Winter Park just no less then twice a month all winter and can't ask for a better set up. The only place the BFG AT's have not shines is in boggy mud... but even there they still work for Jess hahahahaha!

Look at Eagle Rock earlier this year, I had the BFG at's then.. no issues sidehilling on the snow

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 11:00 PM

can you clear 16" rims?

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM

can you clear 16" rims?

I would have no idea how to go about making the adjustments to switch to 16" rims.

I am still thinking about all this. Option three is to get snow tires, run my ATs in the summer and do this for two years. THEN figure out if I want to switch to something like a BFG AT after I have used an AT for wheeling season.

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 11:18 PM

SO I found some Firestone Winterforce tires, 265/70r17 is the best I can do, but for only $78...10.43 wide. That is an inch an a half shorter and 3/4 inch plus narrower...hmmmm

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 11:20 PM

Not all AT's are the same. Trust me. The reason I asked about the rims is... If you can get just basic steel 16" rims that won't cause issues (mainly hitting calipers) then tires would also be a little cheaper

JeffX

October 17th, 2009, 11:21 PM

Funrover

October 17th, 2009, 11:24 PM

Pathrat

October 17th, 2009, 11:27 PM

so what would be the general recommendation from you guys:

31 or a bit under inches tall and 9.65 wide or 31+some inches tall and 10.43 wide? Assume I am talking about the same type of tire?

TIA!

4Runninfun

October 17th, 2009, 11:50 PM

the difference between those two probably is going to be negligable, so i'd probably go with the taller tire.

cfr

October 17th, 2009, 11:56 PM

Have you looked at the Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac?

http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyeartireselector/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Wrangler+DuraTrac&mrktarea=Light%20Truck

It's a hybrid between an AT and MT design and has the mountain/snowflake symbol for winter performance.

This tire is at the top of my list right now.

porkchop

October 18th, 2009, 01:44 AM

they dont my size bummer!:( that looks like a good multi purpose tire for sure

Brody

October 18th, 2009, 04:30 AM

Why must you have 17's....LOL if you had 16's I would have your answer

She has to clear her calipers. A 16" rim would hit, but caliper grinding or wheel spacers would provide clearance, both more stuff than she wants to deal with..

Mporter

October 18th, 2009, 05:44 AM

Thanks. I am a fan of Michelin LTX's also, but loved my set of Yokohamas. Was your dad's trouble with the ice tires?

I'll have to double check with him but I'm pretty sure that he had awful wearing on them. Whatever it was, made him very eager to tell me to never buy them :lol:

Brody

October 18th, 2009, 06:07 AM

Thanks. I am a fan of Michelin LTX's also, but loved my set of Yokohamas. Was your dad's trouble with the ice tires?

Out of all the tires I have ever run on 4x4 in 40 years of owning the things, the three tires I have liked the best for all round use, wear, and driving performance have been the Yokohamas, Toyos and Nittos. I am surprised to hear that someone didn't like the Yokohamas...

When I get a new set of tires, I am probably going for the radial Super Swampers simply for the odd road durability and performance, sacrificing some street driving performance. If I was concerned with having a better all round tire, I would get any of the three I mentioned, but remember I like the off road performance of big meats....not what we are talking here.....

cfr

October 18th, 2009, 08:01 AM

they dont my size bummer!:( that looks like a good multi purpose tire for sure

What size are you looking for?

gm4x4lover

October 18th, 2009, 08:11 AM

You need to find a Lt265/70/17 for the snow. Same width as the 265/65/17 but a little taller. You need the LT(light truck) because they come with deeper tread and a flatter tread pattern. I would look at the Big O A/T, Cooper Discoverer ATR, Hankook AT RH07. Those are all very siped tires from the manufacture. Also look at some basic studdable snows. They will typically last about 40k and give you great hard pack traction as well.

greenramp

October 18th, 2009, 08:22 AM

plan plan plan, prepared prepared prepared, skinny fat skinny fat. I personally am a fan of what ever is on my rig at the time. (unless bald) Snow and ice are peculier things they don't care what tire you have they would rather throw that Honda Accord with bald tires behind you into your bumper. Do as you may it is futile to escape mother nature for the small edge you may think you are going to gain. Unless you are running screws in your tires then give it up.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2812200868_e238f375d2.jpg?v=0

JeffX

October 18th, 2009, 08:23 AM

so what would be the general recommendation from you guys:

31 or a bit under inches tall and 9.65 wide or 31+some inches tall and 10.43 wide? Assume I am talking about the same type of tire?

TIA!

I'd wouldn't go any smaller than 265/70/17 on an FJ. Going with a 255 or something won't really make a difference. Just avoid 315s or 325s.

My MT/Rs are simply skis. Anything like the Revo will do great. Revos are expensive so, alternatives like the Big Os or Yokes can be very attractive.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4250/img5625w.jpg

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/yokohama/yo_geo_at_s_bw_ci2_l.jpg

gm4x4lover

October 18th, 2009, 08:43 AM

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4250/img5625w.jpg

oohh somebody has nitrogen.

Brody

October 18th, 2009, 08:49 AM

I have to agree with Joe on this. I don't have the option of running different tires on my rig dependent on the season, nor would I do it if I had the extra money. Just seems a waste..of my time and money.

I pretty much stick tires on my rig and drive them until I need new ones, simply learning how they behave in different conditions and driving accordingly. When it gets snowy or icy out and I have different tires than I had last winter, I'll take my rig out, stand on the gas, stand on the brakes, whip it around, and just see what happens on crappy surfaces. Then I just adjust my driving to fit my tires. This is usually not too hard a transition to make since I run big meats in a rather aggressive tread pattern anyway, and have for 40 years.

Big meats and an aggressive tread pattern do not equate to good driving characteristics on crappy roads...it is simply not in the equation. Ask any new 4x4 owner with big meats that is off the side of the road in the winter, right side up or upside down...they just found the limits to their groovy new tires...

I think that there are quite a few folks on the site that keep the same tires on year round. I also know quite a few folks that have different sets of tires for different seasons. Different folks, different strokes...

Chris

October 18th, 2009, 08:50 AM

I was wondering why barb's new tires have those green caps. :doh:

Yeah, our Escort came with tires that had nitrogen in them. I promptly dumped it out and filled them with regular air so that you could air them up at a regular gas station or home compressor for nothing instead of driving all over the place on a flat tire or fake spare trying to find someone who has nitrogen.

What a dumbass idea for regular cars. Guy who came up with this brainchild should have a flat somewhere out in BFE, have to put on his fake spare tire and drive 200 miles to the nearest town at 40 mph, then try to find someone who has nitrogen on a Sunday to fill and fix his groovy nitrogen filled tire with the cosmic green caps...

Pathrat

October 18th, 2009, 10:28 AM

This is all great information and feedback. I found some snow tires the same size as the ones the FJ came with, and they are pretty inexpensive.

white collar redneck dad

October 18th, 2009, 10:32 AM

I think that there are quite a few folks on the site that keep the same tires on year round. I also know quite a few folks that have different sets of tires for different seasons. Different folks, different strokes...[/QUOTE]

I have a set of BFG TA KO's 30x9.5x15 that are off rim. Now since I have 4.5 in coils and more leafs in the rear...if I put my 30's back on I should have plenty of flexing room even with chains!!! :thunb: Big o tires in broomfield said they charge $15/tire to mount and balance. Does anyone know a tire shop that will mount and balance for less?:rolleyes:

I bartered my burnt up motor 8000 lb warn winch for a set of 4 32x11.5.x15 Goodyear MTR's. My thinking was since mudders are like bambie on a frozen pond... mount the BFG 30s for snow season then in May put on the 32 MTRs.:rolleyes:

greenramp

October 18th, 2009, 10:37 AM

I want to say that the Discount on 287 by Woody's pizza charged less but I could be wrong. Just tell them Big O's price and they will at least meet the price and no money lost. I like those guys and the manager has a lifted G Cherokee.

white collar redneck dad

October 18th, 2009, 10:44 AM

Don't get too hung up on width. A 12.5" AT will still outperform a 9.5" M/T on the hardpack. Pick a good tire, and you'll do fine. Pep Boys Dakota A/T Cooper) is also an awesome A/T A/S tire. I'll take it over a Michelin anyday.

What are your thoughts for 9.5 wide BFG TA/KO vs 12.5 MT/R or Mudder for overall snow packed I70? I thought more narrow tire for better control on snow packed freeways....:rolleyes:

greenramp

October 18th, 2009, 10:49 AM

lets see I70, snow, colorado, ski season. I think you could have wooden wagon wheels and be fine since top speed is what 3 MPH with all the traffic.

Chris

October 18th, 2009, 10:50 AM

Pizza cutters are always better in snow.

AT's vs MT's - AT's win.

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 01:27 PM

She has to clear her calipers. A 16" rim would hit, but caliper grinding or wheel spacers would provide clearance, both more stuff than she wants to deal with..

16"s would work just fine. A lot of the FJC folks have switched to 16"s wheels because of more tire options and less $$ for 16" tires.

I ended up getting the TRD 16" wheels that FJCs shipped with so I wouldn't have to worry about offset and such.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/KM2s/IMG_8952-1.jpg

There is another kind of 16" wheel that FJCs ship with........it's part of what's called the Off-Road Package.

16" is the smallest you can go with the FJC though. 15"s don't clear the calipers.

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 01:32 PM

I'd wouldn't go any smaller than 265/70/17 on an FJ. Going with a 255 or something won't really make a difference. Just avoid 315s or 325s.

Anything bigger than a 305 with stock wheels and no spacers would hit the UCAs on the FJC.

Several folks including me run 255/85-16s on our FJCs, but I have yet to see anything but MT tires in that size.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i141/khalidafridi/KM2s/1.jpg

white collar redneck dad

October 18th, 2009, 02:33 PM

Pizza cutters are always better in snow.

AT's vs MT's - AT's win.

Very Good,,,thanks Chris:thunb:

Pathrat

October 18th, 2009, 09:28 PM

A-TRAC: are you saying I could swap over to 16" FJC-specific rims without encountering the things Brody mentioned, that he is correct in stating I don't want to deal with?

And my search indicated just what you said: the 255/85r17 are mostly MTs

gm4x4lover

October 18th, 2009, 09:33 PM

Yes alot of tacomas and 4runners came with 16's and some fjc's came with 16's.

And on the nitrogen not that i belive in it but there is no need to swap it out for non pure air. The air we breath is close to 75% nitrogen anyways.

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 09:35 PM

A-TRAC: are you saying I could swap over to 16" FJC-specific rims without encountering the things Brody mentioned, that he is correct in stating I don't want to deal with?

Yes, exactly. And you can get the TRD Wheels (the ones I have) or the 16" wheels off the off-road package on craigslist for cheap.

I paid like $300 for a set of 5 TRD Wheels.

16" TRD Wheels for FJC Silver....

http://toyotapartspeople.com/images/Toyota/TRD_Wheel_Cruiser.jpg

16" TRD Wheels for FJC Anthracite.....

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/10/fj_trd.jpg

16" Off-Road Package Wheels for FJC.....

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/attachments/want-buy-fj-related-items/30824d1243105285-wtb-16-offroad-package-wheels-norcal-sf-bay-area-2008_fj_cruiser_sandstorm_off_road_package_003_fs. jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/sephcm/FJ%20Cruiser/HPIM1203.jpg

And then there are a whole bunch of after-market 16" wheels that work as well. You just have to get the right width, offset and backspacing.

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 09:37 PM

And my search indicated just what you said: the 255/85r17 are mostly MTs

There are a few ATs out there in 255/85-16, but mostly MTs. Here's one I found on onlinetires.com....

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/maxxis/255%252F85-16+maxxis+ma-761+n%252Fa.html

Pathrat

October 18th, 2009, 09:45 PM

That is good to know! I was looking around on the FJforum and sometimes I find it difficult to get pared down, specific info.

So I would look for "TRD 16" wheels"...I don't have to get FJ specific TRD rims?

THANKS!!!

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 09:51 PM

So I would look for "TRD 16" wheels"...I don't have to get FJ specific TRD rims?

I am not 100% sure on that. I know they had a 16" TRD Wheel for the Tacoma or 4-Runner as well (I think?). Not sure if the offset on those is different. Jock (RockyMtnHigh) knows the Colorado Tacoma community, so he might be able to answer that one.

I just kept searching for 16" TRD FJ on craigslist untill I found a set that came off a FJ.

I have seen several sets of the 16"s Off-Road Package wheels on craigslist. Those are easier to find since they come on '08 onwards FJCs with the off-road package. A lot of people will buy a new FJ and first thing they want to do is get some bling wheels and will let the 16" off-road ones go for $300-500.

Pathrat

October 18th, 2009, 10:06 PM

Thanks A-trac, I will look into this :)

A-TRAC

October 18th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Did a little research, the Tacoma and 4-Runner TRD wheels are very different, so if you get the 16 wheels in the picture below, they are for the FJC.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/8f14_12.JPG

Pathrat

October 18th, 2009, 10:18 PM

You are faster than I am doing the search...thank you. I will be specific in my search.

dr350jja

October 18th, 2009, 10:31 PM

How many people run the BFG ATs all year? How are they on packed snow and ice? I am kind of conflicted between having two sets of tires: one dedicated for trail and one for winter as I hate the packed snow on the roads in CO and one set of all year tires, each sacrificing some features to have one set of tires.

I use the BFG AT all year. They seem fine in the snow (made it through the blizzard in Dec. '06) and on the trails. Sure, mud may be a bit of an issue, because they won't "clean out" like a MT tire will. They run pretty quiet on the hwy.

My Tacoma came with the 17" wheels, I switched them out for Eagle Alloys 16", with 285/75R16 tires. :2c:

porkchop

October 18th, 2009, 10:43 PM

What size are you looking for?
35/12.50/15

BOYoda

October 29th, 2009, 12:11 AM

the name of this post should be

Does size really matter?

WINKY

October 29th, 2009, 12:23 AM

motion of the ocean not the size of the boat.....

well what if one was the titanic in a typhoon?:lol:

4Runninfun

October 29th, 2009, 01:29 AM

it maybe true that it's the motion of the ocean but it takes a long time to row the channel in a dingy....

WINKY

October 29th, 2009, 01:46 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!:thunb:

Andrew

October 29th, 2009, 08:26 AM

Well I drive my Xterra in bad weather with my MTR's. I know they aren't the best in snow, but the option of engaging 4x4 is something that I prefer to have in bad snow.

I just drive easy, accelerate slowly and to hell with anyone that wants to go faster, they can eat plate steel if they run into me.

ShutUpHippie

October 29th, 2009, 07:08 PM

I just drive easy, accelerate slowly and to hell with anyone that wants to go faster, they can eat plate steel if they run into me.

:D

On a side note: 12.5in wide tires have a certain likeness to skis sometimes...

JeffX

November 20th, 2009, 08:24 PM

....Onroad, you get a tight and narrow inner tread with a ton of siping on a very soft compound that doesn't freeze up like AT's (especially BFG are prone to do). ........I run this tire because of Colorado winter conditions for utmost safety for my family not in spite of them.

The true test of course is when it is icy (which often happens where I live with early morning snows) :princess: wants to drive the Cruiser on it's 37" meats instead of the low center of gravity minivan on dedicated snows. This is probably the only opinion that matters :D

I want to get Trxus. However, any belief that a giant truck on 37s with M/Ts is safer than a minivan on snow tires is pure fallacy(sorry!:cool:). Even a stock-height SUV has been proven to be less safe than a minivan or car on the hardpack. Static and dynamic coefficient of friction has been unequivocally measured. The verdict is that NOTHING beats a snow tire in these conditions.

That said, your rig looks bad as sh1t and I'm jealous. I'd love to see it in person. I need 37s soon!....

WINKY

November 21st, 2009, 02:47 AM

ill be getting 37" trxus next year with rear locker YAY!!!

Pathrat

November 22nd, 2009, 10:01 PM

I just drive easy, accelerate slowly and to hell with anyone that wants to go faster, they can eat plate steel if they run into me.

I heartily agree with you on this one, but the wingnuts who believe speed is not to be impeded by road conditions will have to munch on Brody and 1Freaky1 tube steel. Bet I'll come out ahead.

Nay, don't think they make the Truxs in my size