Ridgerunner's WJ knuckle swap build

[RidgeRunner]

I finally got started working on this swap. The main purpose of this swap is to upgrade the steering on my D30 and get rid of the inverted "y" steering design.

You may ask "Why not just get one of the aftermarket kits?", well the Currie HD kit is out 'cuz it is still the invertd "y" design. To get a true crossover steering you have to go with somthing like the Teraflex kit or Rustys. At $650 the Teraflex kit is expensive and you only get 1 knuckle, tie rod, drag link, and ends. You still have to look at new ball joints and relocating the trac bar and swabar links. As for the Rusty's kit and the other various kits that run Heim joints in various configurations of OTK and UTK, I'd rather not run Heims on the street and I didn't like the way any of them are set up. JCR Offroad make a inverted "T" design like the YJ's had but with 1-ton TRE's, it's pretty nice but you can still end up with a dead spot because of tie rod roll even with their spacer, and you still have poor TRE angles too. Besides, with any of the above options, you're still running stock brakes.

With the WJ stuff I get cross-over steering, I can run the tie rod and drag link OTK (Over The Knuckle), and I get the added benefit if larger brakes. All for less $ than the Teraflex kit by it's self.

For those of you who don't know, Jeep XJ, TJ, and ZJ all came form the factory with the inverted "y" steering. That design is fine for stock vehices I guess. As soon as you start to lift it you start to have problems. The stering geometry changes with height so just driving and hitting bumps your toe-in setting is constantly changing, the higher you lift it the worse it gets. The drag link will also start to roll a little and cause a dead spot in you steering because of the way the tie rod pulls on it. You also end up with bad TRE angles. I have about 5.5" lift and a 2" drop pitman arm and I have to limit the flex so I don't bind the TRE's.

Jeep WJ's ('99-'04 Grand Cherokees, IIRC) came form the factory with "cross-over" stereing. Meaning they have a knuckle to knuckle tie rod and a knuckle to pitman arm drag link. This way your toe-in setting never changes and it also gets the knuckle end of the drag link up higher to help with TRE angles.

Ok, enough of the background, on to the build!

Here is a list of parts, I'll keep this as a running list and update as I need more stuff.

WJ knuckles, rotors, calipers, brackets, and TREs from a '99.
JKS flange spacers, tie rod, draglink, jamb nuts, over axle trac bar bracket, and sway bar relocation brackets for the axle.
Spicer ball joint kit for '99 WJ, includes upper and lower joints and nuts. (Part #706944X) x2.
Goferit Offroad tierod flip inserts x3
Re-using my '99 XJ unit bearings, only a year old and darn expensive.
Re-Drilling WJ rotors to 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern
(I ended up not needing the spacers, some builds I have seen did need them) Fabbing up some 1/4" caliper bracket spacers to match the 1/4" JKS flange spacers.
(I didn't need these, used the stock WJ bolts) 4 - M12 x 1.25 grade 10.9 bolts about 1/4" longer than stock. (These might be hard to find, we'll see)

I forgot my camera so i don't have any pics yet, I'll get some up Saturday. Sorry!

I'm going to try and have all the parts on hand so I can complete the actual swap in a weekend since my XJ is my dd.

Yesterday I started by welding the JKS flange spacers to the knuckles. You have to space the unit hubs off the knuckle 1/4" to get the axle u-joint on the correct plane with the ball joints and steering axis.

I also drilled out the TRE tapers in the knuckles to 3/4" for the tie rod flip inserts and welded them in place. You can see the inserts at: http://www.goferitoffroad.com/products.htm

More to come soon!

[Brody]

Nice! I like the inserts! Too bad that Goferit only seems to offer this one products. I don't see how people can run a business with one product, though...I looked all over their site and saw no other products or services. Struck me as odd....

Looking forward to the pictures...

[RidgeRunner]

Goferit used to offer alot of other products. A couple years ago he all but closed his doors and just offers the inserts now. He's a little hard to get a hold of but I sent him PayPal Monday evening and had the inserts yesterday, shipped from NC. Not too bad!

I am impressed with the inserts. I used a 3/4" unibit to drill out the tapers, went through like butter. The inserts fit nice and snug in the hole, had to tap them in with a hammer, ran a bead around the lip and done!

[RidgeRunner]

Very interesting! Looks like a cheap and easy upgrade. I might look into this after the new year. My only problem.....No welder:eek: I might be able to find someone on here with one close by........:D

Just a couple things to think about....

I don't know if there is enough room to flip just the tie rod and not the drag link, the TRE's may not clear each other on the passenger side.

If you do end up flipping the knuckle end of the drag link you'll have to move your trac bar accordingly to keep it parallel or you'll probably end up with bump steer.

Check your sway bar links to make sure they will clear if you flip stuff.

Other than that, it's fairly easy. It probably take an hour or so to install the inserts. Time permitting, I'd be happy to help.

[RidgeRunner]

I ended up buying all new TRE's today. I had the ones from the donor vehicle and they were pretty solid but the dust boots were shreded. It's more $ than I wanted to spend but I feel better using new ones. So I picked up 4 new MOOG TRE's and some Ceramic brake pads.

[Funrover]

Sweet deal!

[RidgeRunner]

As promised, I got some pics today. I didn't get as much as I would have liked done today. I'm missing the jamb nuts for the TR and DL as well as one of the flange spacers due to a mix up by the place I ordered them from. I should have them early next week.

It took the chance to install some lightly used MORE motor mounts that I picked up CHEAP ($20) last weekend.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0050.jpg

Here is a side by side comparison of the XJ rotors vs. the WJ rotors, WJ on the left XJ on the right.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0064.jpg

Here are the MOOG WJ TRE's vs. stock XJ TRE's and a Currie HD Tie Rod. The WJ threads are almost as big as the HD tierod, 24mm!
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0068.jpg

Here is a rough idea of where the new tie rod, drag link, and tracbar will be located vs. the stock set-up.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/Mockup.jpg

[RidgeRunner]

The passenger side knuckle with the flange spacer and flip inserts welded on.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0051.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0053.jpg

JKS Drag link with MOOG TRE's. The JKS tie rod and drag link are stout, 1.25 x .375 DOM tube treaded for the WJ TRE's.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0058.jpg

Stock caliper on the right, WJ on the left.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0067.jpg

I'm hoping to have all the parts together and be able to install this stuff next weekend. I'm having trouble tracking down the M12x1.25 bolts for the caliper brackets. Anybody know of a specialty fastener place locally that might carry them? Ace and McGuckins both have them in class 8.8 but I need class 10.9 hardened.

[RidgeRunner]

I finally got the other flange spacer and jamb nuts. If I can get the 4 bolts I ordered from Fastenal before Christmas I'll get this all installed this weekend.

[RidgeRunner]

The swap is done! (mostly) I still have a few things to iron out but the bulk of the work is done, I can drive it, and everything works.

I need to change how I mounted the passenger side sway bar mount, it ended up on top of the new tracbar bracket but my links are too long and the sway bar topped out into the inner fender on my way home, OOPS!

I also need to modify the frame side trac bar mount, I extended it to eliminate some bumpsteer in my old steering and now I think the tie rod will hit it at full stuff on the drivers side.

Everything else is great! The steering is tighter than it has ever been and the brakes are way better. I don't have to push the pedal near near as hard to stop. I haven't put a steering stabalizer on it yet, not sure if I will.

Here are a few pics of the work and finished product.

My friend Jerad cutting the stock trac bar bracket off the axle.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0093.jpg

Passenger side all together.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0101.jpg

Drivers side all together.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0102.jpg

Front view.
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/WJ/IMG_0104.jpg

[Mporter]

Suhhhhhweet

[Hypoid]

A few questions:

What size wheels and backspacing are you running?

Are the ball joints specific to the outer knuckle, or did you replace them for wear?

In a nice round number, what was the final cost?

[RidgeRunner]

What size wheels and backspacing are you running?

15x8 Soft 8 style steel wheels , 3.5" (ish) backspace. Calipers clear the wheel by 3/16".

Just a note on WJ brakes. There were 2 types of calipers used, old was '99-'03, new was '03-'05(?). The newer ones are slightly better but they are also bigger and may not clear a 15" wheel. Search for "teaves" over on NAXJA for threads on the difference. I used the old style 'cuz thats what I found at the JY.


Are the ball joints specific to the outer knuckle, or did you replace them for wear?

Both, you need to use WJ lower ball joints at least, the uppers are the same. I replaced all of them with WJ parts because I figured I might as well do them all sinse I was in that far. I paid $47 per side at 4WP for Spicer kits, the part # is in my list at the top of the page.


In a nice round number, what was the final cost?

I figure I could do it again for $700. That includes new MOOG TREs, new ceramic brake pads, and new spicer ball joints. Sounds like alot but the TerraFlex high steer knuckle is $400 for one knuckle and the kit is $750. No ball joints, you still have stock brakes, and you still have to move you trac bar.

So far it's one of the best upgrades I 've done!

[Hypoid]

BUMP!!!

I'm about $140 into this swap, so far. I lucked out and got the Akebono calipers/brackets. :)

How much does that diff cover stick out from it's mounting surface?

Did you have to change any other componets in the brake's hydraulic system?

[Funrover]

Nice mod!

[Brody]

Nicely done!

I thought of doing this when I had my 90/91 XJ but never got around to it before I sold it and got the Yota...

[RidgeRunner]

I'm about $140 into this swap, so far. I lucked out and got the Akebono calipers/brackets.

How much does that diff cover stick out from it's mounting surface?

Did you have to change any other componets in the brake's hydraulic system?

Nice! Not sure on the diff cover, I'll measure it today. I didn't change any of the other hydraulic parts, same master cylinder, booster, exc. I was able to use the same SS brakelines that I had before too. Mine is a '99, not sure if you have the same MC as mine, I have heard of guys upgrading the MC on the older XJs.

I hope the conversion goes smooth for you, I you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, I'm happy to help. If you end up needing longer caliper bracket bolts I have 2 sets from Fastenal that were special order and were kinda hard to track down.

[Hypoid]

Thanks! I've been watching your threads because you have the dirty hands. I've been slowly collecting parts to lift around 4". I have a couple axles to build and swap in when I can have her station wagon down for the day. :)

Our '90 was graced with the Bendix 9 ABS. I've since replaced it with a dual-diaphram booster. Nice to know I don't have to worry about anything else.

[RidgeRunner]

How much does that diff cover stick out from it's mounting surface?

It sticks out 2.75", here are a few pics of the tie rod clearance with WJ tre's and JKS tierod....

Turned full lock to passenger...
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/Truss/IMG_20110319_110156.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/Truss/IMG_20110319_110206.jpg

and full lock to Driver, it's close to the diff cover.....
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/Truss/IMG_20110319_110225.jpg
http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/ridgerunnerxj/Truss/IMG_20110319_110240.jpg

[RidgeRunner]

Just as a heads up, I'm working on a re-write of this build. There is ALOT of info out there about this swap but you have to wade through pages and pages of arguments and mis-information to get the right answers. My goal is to answer alot of the questions that go along with it and provide measurements and pictures that back up the answers. Some of the confusing areas are what hubs unit hubs work best, weather or not the flange spacers are necessary and why, which rotors to use, and which steering to use. Hopefully I can shed some light and point people in the best direction for their particular needs. Gonna try to get it done in the next week or so.

Dave

[MelloYello]

Thanks. This is a swap that any cherokee would benifit from. I look forward to the next write up.

[Hypoid]

There is ALOT of info out there about this swap but you have to wade through pages and pages of arguments and mis-information to get the right answers.
That, there is!

I scored a set of used unit bearings from a '99, set one next to my trail spare for the '90. The big difference is from the knuckle to the flange for the rotor and wheel. From the knuckle mounting surface, to where the stub axle seats, is the same. I'll be ordering 1/4" spacers from JKS to get the U-joint axis, back in line with the ball joint axis.

EDIT: When I get ball joints installed, maybe we can take some pictures to illustrate that critical alignment.

[RidgeRunner]

I scored a set of used unit bearings from a '99, set one next to my trail spare for the '90. The big difference is from the knuckle to the flange for the rotor and wheel. From the knuckle mounting surface, to where the stub axle seats, is the same. I'll be ordering 1/4" spacers from JKS to get the U-joint axis, back in line with the ball joint axis.


I went to Advance last week with my calipers and a tape measure and got measurements off of WJ, and early and late model XJ hubs as well as WJ and Sport-trac rotors. Answered alot of questions I had and will really help with the write-up.

[Brody]

Hey Dave

If you don't mind, when you get the write up all squared around, would you put it in the Jeep Make And Model links section and label it so that a Google search will bring that up? You will make a lot of Jeep guys all over the world happy. Be like doing your good deed for the day...

[RidgeRunner]

Hey Pete, will do.....

on a side note, I'm doing the write up in word, thought it might be nice to just put it into a .pdf file. It there a way to host a .pdf and just post a link to it?

[Chris]

.PDF files can be attached just like images Dave.

[RidgeRunner]

sweet, thanks

[Popsgarage]

Loved the original write-up. Looking forward to the re-write.

[RidgeRunner]

Shoot, guess I should finish it up. Got it half done, sold the jeep and forgot about it.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[Popsgarage]

Gitterdun.