Chris Stafford???

[RockyMtnHigh]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but I am setting up my netbook with bookmarks tonight and do a Google search for Front Range 4x4 and the first hit is this: http://www.cstafford.com/ I remember doing the same search last week and not seeing it.

A new venture Chris? Good luck, if so!!!

[RockyMtnHigh]

On a side note, the timing of this is kind of funny. I was just commenting that what's out there for fly fishing forums here in Colorado kind of sucks to a friend, especially for it being one of the fly fishing mecas in the US. I will most likely be hitting you up soon.

[Brody]

That is relatively new. Chris must be planning some major modifications to the 60 in the near future....

Nice to know Chris that you have this up. I'll make sure that it gets circulated within LaDawn's sphere of influence...

[Pathrat]

Well presented, straight forward page. I would be interested, were I a person looking for a website and assistance.

[Mporter]

Looks good

[Rob]

Nice, Chris. This a long-term project?

[Chris]

That page is probably a year old and the domain expiring. Not sure if I'll bother with it or not. Any work I get is word-of-mouth anyway. Here's the last one I did: http://medicinalmarijuanaofcolorado.com/

[CR]

I was wondering about the MMJ stuff. A few weeks ago when i logged in, I saw some MMj info on the front range page.
I assumed that maybe something got mixed up.
Great work Chris!

[Mporter]

That MMJ is for a fellow 'mudder, i've seen it in his signature over there before.

[Chris]

I was wondering about the MMJ stuff. A few weeks ago when i logged in, I saw some MMj info on the front range page.
I assumed that maybe something got mixed up.
Great work Chris!

Yes, very observant! I co-mingled content. :redface:


That MMJ is for a fellow 'mudder, i've seen it in his signature over there before.

Right, that's how I know Matt. A bunch of the front FJ60 parts on my truck were from one he parted. :thunb:

[Hulk]

Chris, you do some nice work. What do you think of the new version 4 of vBulletin? I haven't installed it on any of the forums that I admin yet.

[greenramp]

That page is probably a year old and the domain expiring. Not sure if I'll bother with it or not. Any work I get is word-of-mouth anyway. Here's the last one I did: http://medicinalmarijuanaofcolorado.com/

An advocate I take it?

[Chris]

What do you think of the new version 4 of vBulletin? I haven't installed it on any of the forums that I admin yet.

Thanks Matt, old style web stuff is where I'm comfortable, I haven't kept up and don't care to either. V4 was released far too early Matt, I would consider it still beta. The .01 update fixed 400 bugs but there are plenty more. You know it's not ready when you see comments in the code like //what is this doing here// and //its ugly but it works//
I spent more hours than I'll admit getting it to work properly and can't honestly recommend it to anyone unless you want to use it w/o any style change or modification. IIRC .02 is due later this week so I'll see how far it's come since last week before I change my opinion. Go to the vbulletin.com forum and you'll quickly see how unhappy people are.


An advocate I take it?

I am in favor of legalization of pot primarily because I'm anti-alcohol which has caused, and will continue to cause, so many societal problems. The societal and medical costs of alcohol use, alcoholism, related diseases, family destruction, injuries, property damage, death, etc due to an approved drug is simply hypocritcal when a much safer drug is illegal.

[greenramp]

Justification of an evil with a lesser evil is easy. I just asked of your advocacy.

Sorry, I am a believer of The Spiral of Silence, as well as in oposition to the advocacy of the "lesser evil". I knew of your opposition of alcohol due to previous posts. Most advocates whom are active use the alcohol bit as a way to just get what they want "legalization". As you said "safer" not safe.
Being anti-alcohol is a respectable position, if oposition is to want society to be safe, not safer. I question your use of "hypocritical".

[Dan]

Justification of an evil with a lesser evil is easy. I just asked of your advocacy.

Sorry, I am a believer of The Spiral of Silence, as well as in oposition to the advocacy of the "lesser evil". I knew of your opposition of alcohol due to previous posts. Most advocates whom are active use the alcohol bit as a way to just get what they want "legalization". As you said "safer" not safe.
Being anti-alcohol is a respectable position, if oposition is to want society to be safe, not safer. I question your use of "hypocritical".


I concur. We may never know how far reaching the damaging effects of alcohol is on our society. It is certainly not offset by the taxes imposed. However, will a legalization of a "safer" drug be beneficail to society? Will there be less related diseases, family destruction, injuries, property damage, death, etc?

[Chris]

I built a web site for a customer who asked if I was interested in some work, when I replied I was he asked if I had any issue with the content. Obviously I do not. That doesn't consitute advocacy in any way. If I was interested in advocating I'd advocate making alcohol illegal before advocating the legalization of pot.

Furthermore, what I view as hypocrisy is worth what I'm paid to to express it. ;)

[edog]

There is a right way and a wrong way to legalize it. I think we are seeing the legalization of pot, but I don't quite know if it's the right way to do it. There are already quite a few problems with dispensaries being robbed, and I question the location/density of dispensaries as well. A friend of a friend of mine owns/operates a dispensary and he makes huge money. Ethically, it concerns me how he will use such huge sums of money, there needs to be some regulation if legalization is what we are witnessing.

[Haku]

I would argue that it would in fact be beneficial to society, as it would at least help to eliminate all the shady criminal behavior that is involved with Marijuana use currently. If its legal and regulated (much like Alchohol is now), then it takes the control out of the hands of criminals and into publicly elected officials.

It honestly baffles me how Alchohol is legal and pot isn't. I don't drink very often, and have only tried pot once, but after seeing the general behavior characteristics of the use of each, Alcohol causes much more destructive behavior to society. Livining in Boulder, where the use of Pot is huge, it became rather clear to me that while the use of Marijuana may not be a benefit to society, its use didn't seem to be taking away from society much either.

Let me ask you this. When was the last time you heard of someone who used pot doing vehicular manslaughter, or beating their kids, or any number of things that you hear about daily happening with Alchohol? No amount of "stupid adds showing a pot head running a girl on a bike down in a drive thru" are going to sway me from thinking that its any more destructive then boozing up.

The 1920's showed us that prohibition did nothing good, and created rampant bad behavior. People will use whatever substance they are going to use. If it was the other way around, and Pot had been legal and Alcohol illegal for the last 100 years or so, and people were trying to get Alcohol legalized, the same BS arguments against it would be used too. So yeah, I would say that having pot be currently illegal (albeit decriminalized) is a detriment to society, since it creates criminal behavior just like the prohibition of Alcohol did in the 1920's. Make it legal, and most of that criminal behavior goes away.

To me, it really comes down to the fact that I believe people can make their own decisions when it comes to their own lives. Sure, it may not be the healthiest thing in the world, but who am I to decide for another person whether its the right choice for them or not. Their actions against other people can be punished, but as long as it doesn't hurt another person I don't see why I should care whether they use whatever substance they feel like. Its gonna happen whether its illegal or not, so why not legalize it, and regulate it so that we at least know its a little bit healthier and not laced with something.

Honestly, I don't think I'd start using it if they did legalize it fully and you could buy the same as cigarettes or alcohol, but I would still support it fully. At least then I wouldn't have sketchy people showing up at my neighbors house doing doings deals. Can you imagine how much money the government would save on this if it were legal too? No more sketchy pot farms all over the national parks, no more putting money into criminals hands. On the flip side, Farmers can actually start growing it and making money off it legally, instead of getting paid not to grow corn.

I could really keep going on this for quite a while, but I probably have already gone on for too long, so I'll leave it there.

JH

[greenramp]

1st, sorry for the diversion in topics, the site is well built Chris. I read all sorts of oposing views to either change mine or make them more solid.

As most would probably know I choose my arguements well and don't come unprepared.
My basis for this whole thing is that you either legalize both (as Haku says we have the right to make our own decisions) as long as they do not infringe upon others rights.
OR ban them both. Hypocracy is not an option (in my book)
here are a couple articles:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/nj/20091010_Driver_in_fatal_Route_38_crash_charged_wi th_DUI.html

http://www.billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_017205c0-9650-11de-9f0d-001cc4c002e0.html

Some would say that these are isolated incidents but that is in a world were it is illegal, what happens when it isn't?
Aren't 2 lives worth it?
I am not here to preach my own beliefs as they are mine to hold. I just like to inform, because information is the key to your own beliefs.
I have never done an ILLEGAL drug in my life and I had a beer Sunday afternoon. Before that was New Years and I don't remember the last time I was "drunk"
Some people do abuse the drug, yes I too consider it a drug, but I am responsible with it and not all are. If it were illegal I would have no quams giving it up.
Majority rules right?

[RockyMtnHigh]

its use didn't seem to be taking away from society much either

You won't get an argument there from me, with or without pot, Boulder is Boulder, the highest concentration of wierdos in the state lies in them foothills and I can't blame it on the pot! :lmao:


Let me ask you this. When was the last time you heard of someone who used pot doing vehicular manslaughter, or beating their kids, or any number of things that you hear about daily happening with Alchohol? No amount of "stupid adds showing a pot head running a girl on a bike down in a drive thru" are going to sway me from thinking that its any more destructive then boozing up.Greenramp answered your question on when was the last time you heard of a pot related traffic accident.

Common sense should have answered that for you though, you can't sit back and say that a substance that impairs judgment, vision and reaction time would have little or lesser effect on you behind the wheel than alcohol (whether you've used it or not). Why do we hear of issues more frequently with alcohol than we do marijuana? Well let's see, how many liquor stores do you see on main streets in small towns, crap I was in Deckers yesterday and I counted ONE in that whole 50 feet of town not to mention the restaurant/bar that sits one door down. There's three from Tower to Hwy 2 on 104th, how many marijuana dispensaries are there? ZERO!!!!

It's more prevalent, it's legal and there isn't much out there to regulate it's use. If anything instead of using it as an example of why we should legalize marijuana we should be learning from it on why not to and maybe that's the reason so many lawmakers out there vote against it.

Alcohol like marijuana affects people differently, me when I have become sh!t faced I get quiet, calm and sit back and watch everyone. I know of people that become 10 feet tall and bullet proof. To say that pot doesn't have the same affect on someone is laughable at best, I grew up in a rough neighborhood, which was a reason I moved, I saw plenty of instances where people got high on pot and did stupid sh!t, like rape, burglary, car jacking and drive bys. It's not the substance that's the problem, IT'S THE PEOPLE DOING IT!!!! It's nothing short of saying guns kill people! People kill people, plain and simple.

[Haku]

You won't get an argument there from me, with or without pot, Boulder is Boulder, the highest concentration of wierdos in the state lies in them foothills and I can't blame it on the pot! :lmao:

Greenramp answered your question on when was the last time you heard of a pot related traffic accident.

Common sense should have answered that for you though, you can't sit back and say that a substance that impairs judgment, vision and reaction time would have little or lesser effect on you behind the wheel than alcohol (whether you've used it or not). Why do we hear of issues more frequently with alcohol than we do marijuana? Well let's see, how many liquor stores do you see on main streets in small towns, crap I was in Deckers yesterday and I counted ONE in that whole 50 feet of town not to mention the restaurant/bar that sits one door down. There's three from Tower to Hwy 2 on 104th, how many marijuana dispensaries are there? ZERO!!!!

It's more prevalent, it's legal and there isn't much out there to regulate it's use. If anything instead of using it as an example of why we should legalize marijuana we should be learning from it on why not to and maybe that's the reason so many lawmakers out there vote against it.

Alcohol like marijuana affects people differently, me when I have become sh!t faced I get quiet, calm and sit back and watch everyone. I know of people that become 10 feet tall and bullet proof. To say that pot doesn't have the same affect on someone is laughable at best, I grew up in a rough neighborhood, which was a reason I moved, I saw plenty of instances where people got high on pot and did stupid sh!t, like rape, burglary, car jacking and drive bys. It's not the substance that's the problem, IT'S THE PEOPLE DOING IT!!!! It's nothing short of saying guns kill people! People kill people, plain and simple.

I guess it came down to the fact that when I was working at a Pizza Place as s delivery driver in Boulder, for a place called Fatty J's (pot reference much?) that I was just about the only person in the building who wasn't blazed 24-7, including drivers. There was a bowl in the walk in refrigerator that was pretty much always full. Not saying they weren't impaired, but none of them got in accidents while I worked there. I never went out on a drive with them, or felt the need to hang out with any of them, but I did find that interesting. I think you hit right on the head though with your last paragraph. In most instances, the people who are gonna do crappy stuff like you listed are gonna do it whether its legal or not, or in many cases, whether they are stoned or not.

From an enforcement side of things, I think one of the major reasons that law enforcement types are against legalization (beyond the obvious financial boon they are getting from catching these "criminal" growers and distributors that would go away if it was legalized) is that there still isn't a great "on location" way to test how much a person is under the influence, like there is with the breathalyzer for booze. Until that gets figured out, the law enforcement agencies probably will never back, if they ever will. To me, when the use of something is prevalent in a society, and it has been accepted in many levels of our society from the rich to the poor, its just silly to have it illegal and put the money into criminal organizations rather then taxing and regulating it. Its become easy enough to get these days, that if people want to use it they are going to either way. Heck, minor pot possession has become a "slap on the wrist" level offence, and is more akin to a speeding ticket then anything else in most states.

I still stand by the fact that I want to see it legalized, not because I want to use it, but because I see having it be legal and regulated and taking the money away from criminal organizations and putting it into the public coffers as a better solution then keeping this supposed prohibition going and having it fund not only local criminal organizations, but many many large cartels throughout the world. Sure, there are still other drugs out there, but in my experience at least, pot use is more prevalent in our society in "normal" circles. I hate the fact that it will probably cause more "under the influence" accidents and such though too, so its a two sided issue too. Nothing that I hate more then a person who chooses to do that, but I do have the belief that most people who would do that are going to do it whether its legal or not. DUI offenses should definitely be harsher then they already are, while still being fair and just.

JH

[RockyMtnHigh]

for a place called Fatty J's (pot reference much?)

:lmao: Working nights back in Oklahoma there was only one place close by opened after 12, called Mary Jane's Pizza. It was some of the crappiest pizza I have had, seemed like it was made out of a large round cracker with tomato paste on top, in a pinch it worked, I guess even more so when you had the munchies. Come to think of it, I saw a Fatty J's box in the break room here a couple weeks ago.

The guy I have been fishing with, in his late 40's sparks up every now and then, hasn't done it in front of me yet, but talks about being stuck in the skier traffic on I-70 heading back to Denver on Sunday and lighting up in the middle of it in the past. Having never touched the stuff myself, I am not sure how to feel about it, I know it better not happen while he's driving with me, but I am a little more open with others using now than I was in the past. Come to find out, a large number of fly fisherman smoke weed and openly talk about it, not me though, I'll stick to my stouts and dark ales.

[Haku]

I think you'd be surprised about how common its usage is these days. I just found out fairly recently that my mom has both smoked pot more recently and on more occasions then I have. I know living in Boulder, that more of my friends used it on a regular basis then my friends who didn't. Being Boulder that's not saying much though, since its really really popular there. Pretty funny to see the new freshman come in and be all gape mouthed the first time they see some dude toking up on the street. There is certainly a time and a place for it, and other times and places (like in vehicles or on the ski slopes IMHO) where its not cool to do it.

As for Fatty J's, despite the name and all the stoner references, they actually have some of the best pizza in Boulder if you ask me. I can only speak from close to 4 years ago though. I know they use good cheese, make their own sauce and dough from scratch, and use good hand cut veggies. The only stuff they buy pre-prepared is sausage and pepperoni really. I have to say I had a serious weakness for their "blunts", which is their version of the pizza roll. Their Philly Cheese steak one, that comes with BBQ sauce instead of marinara, is daaaaamn good. They have very reasonable prices for being an independent place too, competing with Black Jack and Dominoes for prices, but much higher quality. I've worked in a decent amount of food service jobs, and some places I'm happy to eat at and others I won't ever again, and Fatty's is on the good list. You just have to put up with some stoners if you order from there. Ok......free plug time over.

JH