Dana 35, And Ford 8.8 Questions

[Fordguy77]

I plan on running the Ford 8.8 in the rear, with the Dana 35 up front, as these are almost both bolt in swaps with minimal work involved. I plan on welding the axle tubes to the diff. I also plan on doing a E clip eliminator while i am at it on the Dana 35. I have heard that the u-joints in the Dana 35, can be modified to take a full snap ring. Has any one done this on the Dana 35? Or have any other suggestions or knowledge on upgrades for these axles?

[scout man]

what size tires are you running? you may want to concider picking up a cheap dana 44 instead. I know there are scout 44's that go cheap pretty often. They are a passenger drop, dont know what you need. I beleive they are 57" wide on a scout II. Also if you need a different width a lot of the jeep guys modify them, then get rid of them when they upgrade. If you have already gone through this all and made your descision, then just ignore me. If not, might be at least worth looking at. I dont know a whole lot about the 35s or how to modify them, I have 44s.

[Fordguy77]

what size tires are you running? you may want to concider picking up a cheap dana 44 instead. I know there are scout 44's that go cheap pretty often. They are a passenger drop, dont know what you need. I beleive they are 57" wide on a scout II. Also if you need a different width a lot of the jeep guys modify them, then get rid of them when they upgrade. If you have already gone through this all and made your descision, then just ignore me. If not, might be at least worth looking at. I dont know a whole lot about the 35s or how to modify them, I have 44s.

It is a TTB style front axle. So i would have to convert to a SFA. I plan on doing this in the future when i have some more cash lying around, As far as tires go i am going to be running 33X12.5 R15. I have heard and read that people are running 36's on them without upgrading to stronger shafts, but are doing some sort of backyard modifications. Thanks for the imput, when i get the cash there will be a 44 up front.

[scout man]

ah, didnt realize that was a TTB, thought we were talking solid axles. I dont know anything about TTB, I dont think I would run 36" on a solid axle dana 35. Probably would go over 33's or so, especially if geared low. But i dont know how that converts to TTB or anything. I guess if people are doing it it works. Probably wouldnt really worry about it at all if you werent planning on wheeling it, not sure what vehicle we are even talking about here. But if its the B2 it may be pushing it especially if you are gearing down, which I am guessing you would have to do.

[Fordguy77]

Yeah were talking about the B2. It the 8.8 and Dana 35 i pulled from the explorer came with a LSD in the rear with 4.11 gears. I am hoping since i am going to be adding some performance parts into the 4.0l V6 that it will have the guts to turn them 33's with 4.11's for a while.I want to rear gear but i want to hold off as long as i can.

[scout man]

4.11s should turn 33s jsut fine. I am turning 35s with 3.54s right now. I am definitely under powered, but would probably be ok with 4.11s. Although I will go a touch higher, and there is a chance sometime in the future you will want to as well, but 4.11s are probably a good starting point for 33's. And I miss read a previous post, thought you were trying to run 36's. I bet you can get away with 33s on a dana 35 for a while without a problem. Good luck with it! Im interested to see the finished product.

[Fordguy77]

Thanks for the luck! I'll need it, especially with the venture into the Dana 35 upgrades, seeing as the ones i am finding are all backyard style fixes and not real ones! haha the only thing going for 36's anytime soon might be The 77, if i ever get back around to it.

[Brody]

My 2 cents:

Since your front is a TTB, there is only going to be so much you can do to it before it either starts breaking a lot or the cost of the fixes warrant an SAS. Larry (WarLord) runs either 36 or 37 tires on much the same set up in his Ranger, but breaks a lot of front shafts. If you stick to 33" tires and don't hammer it on harder trails, you should be Ok. I think that once you step up to 35" and start doing harder trails that is when you are going to break stuff.

And if you are planning on doing harder trails with it,most definitely go with the Dana 44 SAS rather than beefing it with Camberg Racing components. Camberg makes great stuff, no doubt, but their stuff is expensive and will cost more with less return than a D44..Sean found a donor D44 with steering linkage for $125 or so, FYI.

[Warrlord]

I haven't done the full circle snap rings on the u-joints. Never really felt a need to. I know a few guys on TRS that swear by doing it though. I use the Spicer 5-760X joints. I won't use any kind of hollowed out joint, the kind with a grease zerk, or aftermarket cheapies made in China. The Spicers are solid. In fact these joints are the same exact joints used in front D44's and I've broken two of 'em. One time running 38's, the other running 37's.

I haven't broken what I would consider "a lot" of axles. I actually broke only one axle. It was the outer on the drivers side. The other two times (this was 3 times total since running 38's & 37's since 2003) were the u-joints but I just called it axle breakage. Both times the joints broke, the caps remained in place which is why I don't feel the need for full circle snap rings. Since these are the same exact u-joints in front D44's, I could get CTM or OX joints but if I did, I would probably break axles instead of joints. I consider the u-joints as my fuse because they're cheaper than axles.

I did break the front hubs on one run. Those were the Warn hubs #29071. These are the same exact hubs that come from the factory on the D35's, they're made by Warn for Ford. Ever since I upgraded to the Warn #37780 hubs, I haven't broken any more. The 37780 hubs are made for the Jeep D35 rear full floater axle kit. Those hubs have an extra strong housing (that's what grenades, not the guts). You can feel the difference in the weight. The casting is more dense because it's a better grade alloy that the standard hubs. Warn doesn't market them for the front of Fords so you'll have to find the Jeep full floater axle kit. The hubs are purchased seperately anyway & they're only about $25.00 more than standard hubs.

So, whether you run a D44 or D35 up front, you'll be using the same size joints in the axles with either one. But............with the D44, you have the advantage of purchasing molly shafts. No stronger aftermarket shafts for TTB D35's exist. So if you run a D44, you can have molly shafts & CTM joints & your hubs become the fuse which is good because those hubs are less expensive than CTM joints & D35 Jeep hubs & they're soooo easy to change out on the trail if needed.

The D35 gets a bad rep but it's not as bad as most think. Yeah, they're not the best by any means but your build, you should be fine since you're sticking with 33's. One of the reasons I have minimal breakage with 37's plus is, I learned to wheel over obstacles with this attitude............As slow as possible, as fast as necessary. That can help minimize breakage. No point in hot dogging it anymore, it only hurts the wallet.

[brian pleasant]

it is just matter of dealing with it, i used to have many fords with ttb before and was frustrated. learning how to control the gas pedal and 33 inch will be fine, i have 1994 f150 now, still want to do the sas. ttb isnt too bad unless have spare parts like axle shaft, hubs, u joints and run up to 33 will not be a problem..i broken mine like three times in two years. everytime when it happens i curse to myself and should have done the sas..just deal with it easy fix...

[Volcom]

I've never heard of a D35 front axle?? Are you thinking D30 like what comes under most YJ & TJ's?

[Haku]

Dana 35's are under Cherokee's and a couple of the Wrangler models. I'm pretty sure that the current non-rubicon Wrangler models use them in a Solid Front application currently too.

In this case, he's talking about a Twin Traction Bar setup, which splits the axle in half essentially is in the shape of an X. Until this thread I hadn't truly looked at how its setup, but have to say that its one complex and weird setup. Looks slightly stronger then a IFS setup, but must be a ***** to align and get right. I am no help with upgrading it, but for what its worth, I'd cut the sucker out and do a Solid Axle job on it. If the Dana 35 TTB setup swaps over reasonably well I guess its worth doing, but for just a bit more money you could go with a Dana 44 setup and have a system that can actually flex and move without throwing the alignment off all over the place. If you go with leaf springs, its seems like a simple matter of cutting off the brackets for the TTB, fabing some spring hangers and shackle hangers, doing a bit of frame plating to strengthen, and possibly installing some shock towers. I bet you could do that for under $500 for sure, and if you scrounged for parts, significantly less.

Beyond u-joints and axle shafts, I would imagine the Dana 35 axle has a weaker ring and pinion too right? Something to consider. I know I seem to be a "SAS or its ****" dude, but people seem a bit more daunted by it then is warranted sometimes. You don't need to purchase some expensive kit to get it done, and there are cheap and simple ways to figure it out. Off road performance seems like it would be much better too. Not sure how much articulation you get out of a TTB setup, but it seems to be pretty limited to me. Can't imagine it would be any worse on the roads either.

JH

[Volcom]

I'm pretty sure that the current non-rubicon Wrangler models use them in a Solid Front application currently too

They use D30's. That's why I'm confused about a D35 front.

[Haku]

[QUOTE=Haku;86725]I'm pretty sure that the current non-rubicon Wrangler models use them in a Solid Front application currently too[/QUOTE

They use D30's. That's why I'm confused about a D35 front.

oops, you are right. The Dana 35 is never found in front Solid Axle configuration. Its only in a TTB or IFS configuration. The Cherokee uses them in the rear though. The front TTB version is found in 1997-2000 Dodge Durango's and Dakota's, and the 90-97 Ford Exploder and Ranger use them too. Look up what a Twin Traction Beam setup is and you'll see the difference.

JH

[Volcom]

Gotcha, never knew they used a D35 in the TTB setup.

[Warrlord]

The D35 TTB was used in 90-97 Rangers, 90-94 Explorers (95 & newer Ex's & 98 & newer Rangers had an IFS D35 with cv joints & torsion bar suspension). The TTB D35 is "high pinion" & "reverse cut". The steepest gears you can get for the rear Jeep D35 are 4.88's. For the TTB, it's 5.13's. If the TTB bothered that bad, I'd have done an SAS already. Even the D44 SAS isn't bulletproof. Never had a problem aligning it. If the beam(s) aren't twisted, the caster is within specs. Cams in the upper ball joints adjust the camber. Set the toe like you would on anything else & drive it.

With extended radius arms, the right coil springs, the right shocks, articulation can be decent. Not as good as an SAS with the right springs & shocks but still decent. At this point he's at, if he went with a D44 SAS, it'd be a full width axle. He'd have to obtain a rear full width axle to match it. It would kinda defeat his purpose currently of using everything off of the donor vehicle. I'm not trying to talk up the TTB, just offering my first hand experience with them since I've wheeled two Rangers in the last 14 years that had them. I'm not going off of heresay but actual trail experience. Are there drawbacks when comparing it to a D44 SAS? Certainly, but i've wheeled with people that have broken D44 parts, broken Birfields, broken D60 parts, & broken D30 parts, so it has shown me over the years that anything can get broken, including my junk.

For his swap he's doing, the TTB D35 is a direct bolt in, no modification(s) are required.

[scout man]

They use D30's. That's why I'm confused about a D35 front
Well, i thought earlier scouts used dana 35 axles, but I just looked it up and I was wrong, they are Dana 30s. I could have sworn they had 35s. I must be losing it.

[Fordguy77]

I haven't done the full circle snap rings on the u-joints. Never really felt a need to. I know a few guys on TRS that swear by doing it though. I use the Spicer 5-760X joints. I won't use any kind of hollowed out joint, the kind with a grease zerk, or aftermarket cheapies made in China. The Spicers are solid. In fact these joints are the same exact joints used in front D44's and I've broken two of 'em. One time running 38's, the other running 37's.

I haven't broken what I would consider "a lot" of axles. I actually broke only one axle. It was the outer on the drivers side. The other two times (this was 3 times total since running 38's & 37's since 2003) were the u-joints but I just called it axle breakage. Both times the joints broke, the caps remained in place which is why I don't feel the need for full circle snap rings. Since these are the same exact u-joints in front D44's, I could get CTM or OX joints but if I did, I would probably break axles instead of joints. I consider the u-joints as my fuse because they're cheaper than axles.

I did break the front hubs on one run. Those were the Warn hubs #29071. These are the same exact hubs that come from the factory on the D35's, they're made by Warn for Ford. Ever since I upgraded to the Warn #37780 hubs, I haven't broken any more. The 37780 hubs are made for the Jeep D35 rear full floater axle kit. Those hubs have an extra strong housing (that's what grenades, not the guts). You can feel the difference in the weight. The casting is more dense because it's a better grade alloy that the standard hubs. Warn doesn't market them for the front of Fords so you'll have to find the Jeep full floater axle kit. The hubs are purchased seperately anyway & they're only about $25.00 more than standard hubs.

So, whether you run a D44 or D35 up front, you'll be using the same size joints in the axles with either one. But............with the D44, you have the advantage of purchasing molly shafts. No stronger aftermarket shafts for TTB D35's exist. So if you run a D44, you can have molly shafts & CTM joints & your hubs become the fuse which is good because those hubs are less expensive than CTM joints & D35 Jeep hubs & they're soooo easy to change out on the trail if needed.

The D35 gets a bad rep but it's not as bad as most think. Yeah, they're not the best by any means but your build, you should be fine since you're sticking with 33's. One of the reasons I have minimal breakage with 37's plus is, I learned to wheel over obstacles with this attitude............As slow as possible, as fast as necessary. That can help minimize breakage. No point in hot dogging it anymore, it only hurts the wallet.

Thanks larry. This is exactly the kind of information i was looking for. I really just wanted to hear from someone who has wheeled them, and has some good knowledge about them. After doing some further reading, and comparing what i have found and what you are saying, it sounds like i will do just fine with Dana 35 with out going to the full snap rings. I am a little nervous to start grinding on the yokes of the axle and such, seeing as how my life comes into play. Thanks for the input!

[Hypoid]

For his swap he's doing, the TTB D35 is a direct bolt in, no modification(s) are required.
Not to mention it's already bought. ;)

[Fordguy77]

I haven't done the full circle snap rings on the u-joints. Never really felt a need to. I know a few guys on TRS that swear by doing it though. I use the Spicer 5-760X joints. I won't use any kind of hollowed out joint, the kind with a grease zerk, or aftermarket cheapies made in China. The Spicers are solid. In fact these joints are the same exact joints used in front D44's and I've broken two of 'em. One time running 38's, the other running 37's.

I haven't broken what I would consider "a lot" of axles. I actually broke only one axle. It was the outer on the drivers side. The other two times (this was 3 times total since running 38's & 37's since 2003) were the u-joints but I just called it axle breakage. Both times the joints broke, the caps remained in place which is why I don't feel the need for full circle snap rings. Since these are the same exact u-joints in front D44's, I could get CTM or OX joints but if I did, I would probably break axles instead of joints. I consider the u-joints as my fuse because they're cheaper than axles.

I did break the front hubs on one run. Those were the Warn hubs #29071. These are the same exact hubs that come from the factory on the D35's, they're made by Warn for Ford. Ever since I upgraded to the Warn #37780 hubs, I haven't broken any more. The 37780 hubs are made for the Jeep D35 rear full floater axle kit. Those hubs have an extra strong housing (that's what grenades, not the guts). You can feel the difference in the weight. The casting is more dense because it's a better grade alloy that the standard hubs. Warn doesn't market them for the front of Fords so you'll have to find the Jeep full floater axle kit. The hubs are purchased seperately anyway & they're only about $25.00 more than standard hubs.

So, whether you run a D44 or D35 up front, you'll be using the same size joints in the axles with either one. But............with the D44, you have the advantage of purchasing molly shafts. No stronger aftermarket shafts for TTB D35's exist. So if you run a D44, you can have molly shafts & CTM joints & your hubs become the fuse which is good because those hubs are less expensive than CTM joints & D35 Jeep hubs & they're soooo easy to change out on the trail if needed.

The D35 gets a bad rep but it's not as bad as most think. Yeah, they're not the best by any means but your build, you should be fine since you're sticking with 33's. One of the reasons I have minimal breakage with 37's plus is, I learned to wheel over obstacles with this attitude............As slow as possible, as fast as necessary. That can help minimize breakage. No point in hot dogging it anymore, it only hurts the wallet.

Have you had any problems with the e-clip?

[Warrlord]

Have you had any problems with the e-clip?

Nope, the clip & axle have always stayed where they're supposed to be. It's not a bad idea to eliminate it, it's just something I never did. After 10 years with this Ranger & never having an issue with that axle or clip, I doubt I'll ever eliminate it.

[Fordguy77]

Ordered The Warn #37780 hubs Today. Thanks Warrlord for the info, did some more research on it, and its just as you said, the way to go.

[1freaky1]

As to your running 33s w/ the 4.0 & 4:10s you won't have any problem with it, that is how how ranger is currently setup and until I do my SAS and 35s this is how it is staying, the only thing I have seen with it is the speedometer is off by 3-5 mph depending how fast I am going. Meaning at 65 on the odemeter I am actually going 60 this starts in at around 25mph where it starts to show the offset in speed.
Also if you eventually plan to do a SAS I have a D44 housing you can pick up cheap, it is the early style with kingpins but there are some good upgrades for them now and it is a high pinion too. Just something to build which I was going to do for a spare setup but decided I need the room more than another comlete axle assembly laying around.