gears

[scout man]

Alright, so i just bought a ring and pinion in the springs (thanks to Nick for grabbing that for me). It is a 4.56, but on for one axle. While I was home at the same time I ended up getting a free set of 4.10 gears, front and rear with carriers (which I can use for either gears), one welded and one open. My question is, am I better running the 4.10s and reselling the 4.56, or selling the 4.10s and trying to get another 4.56. I am running 35s with 3.54s right now and I am very underpowered. I am keeping in consideration the fact that regearing my tcase will cost a fortune, so my cheapest way to get low gearing is in the axles, but I still want to be able to drive at highway speeds. Any recommendations? I will also post a pic of the new ring gears when I get them out of my suitcase (yes, I flew back with them :lmao:), one ring does have a few teeth that are damaged, but my good friend that gave them to me said they will still work just fine if set up properly. The 4.56 Nick said looks in great condition. Advice?

[Mporter]

Honestly whatever you do would be an upgrade and gain you back some power. So I'd just do whatever is the most cost effective. If you can find another 4.56 I'd go that route. But that's just me

[scout man]

here are the pictures of the damage. There are only 5 teeth damaged, but there are large chunks missing. I am thinking put it up front so if it ever goes out I can unlock and drive home, should last for a while... and it is free, which is about the right price for me and scout parts right now.

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[Rob]

Why not run the 410s until you can get another 456?

[scout man]

thats the way I am leaning right now

[Rob]

Well, the price was definitely right. Wish I could score some free lower gears for the 40.

[scout man]

Well, the price was definitely right. Wish I could score some free lower gears for the 40.

yea, fortunately I know a few people back home with scouts... these came from a buddy of mine, actually going to be the best man at my wedding... He had a scout and his wife got him these to put in, but he kind of lost interest and the scout needs some serious work. We had talked several times about me buying them (i didnt know at that time they were damaged) and when I was back this weekend he said just take them.... they were just sitting in his garage rusting, and he has a baby now and doesnt intend to touch his scout again. In fact, knowing him I would be willing to bet he trailers the whole scout out here when he come out for my wedding, and leaves it with me. The fiance has decided she would like to have a scout a little smaller than mine that we could fix up and make look real nice. I sure am not complaining and his would be a good candidate. but yea, free gears are great, even if it means flying back with them.

[Rob]

Wow. Another Scout would be cool.

You're lucky Homeland Security let you get through with gears in your bags. :) Must not have been in your carry-on.

[Brody]

You are going to be more in your power/gas mileage/torque curve with the 4.56 gears than with the 4.10s.

Since setting up a Dana 44 isn't a task easily accomplished unless you have done a few, you can expect to pay someone to do this. Given this, it is a hit or miss proposition sticking chipped gears in the front or anywhere else and expecting them to last very long. I would say that if you were able to do the install and set up yourself, sure, why not. You aren't out anything except some colored marking grease, time and gear oil.

Personally, I would wait until I had another good set of 4.56 and install all good gears. I don't know how much interest in the Scout world there is for the 4.10s, but there isn't much in the Yota world for the comparable 4.11s. My inclination would be to advertise the 4.10s and see what people are looking to pay for them. If they are already in the carriers, go ahead and stick them in your rig and run them. There are certainly going to be better than the 3.54s...and then down the pike a little get the other set of 4.56.

If there is a lot of demand for the 4.10s, don't install them, but sell them and get the other set of 4.56....

[1freaky1]

Steve, if it were me I would wait until I could get the other set of 4:56s rather than do the work twice and install chipped gears that may not hold up to much then you are doing it again and possibly stuck on the trail somewhere too. Just my 2 cents. 4:56s are closer to the power band for 35s definitely and 4:10s will leave you lacking in both highway and trail driving.

[gm4x4lover]

4.56 all the way. I dont think you would be happy with 4.10's. Somebody once told me if you are going to do it right you might as well do it right the first time.

[scout man]

i guess I need to keep my eyes open for another 4.56 then. Anyone have experience with the setup that would be willing to teach?? This is definitely something I would like to add to my list of things I can do myself.

[JeffX]

Get rid of 'em all and get 4.88s! (if possible).

I'm with the other guys here. Don't bother with 4.10s.

[greenramp]

I would use that thing in the picture above for it's worth right now..... a paper weight.

[Haku]

Well, the price was definitely right. Wish I could score some free lower gears for the 40.

What is in there now? Not sure if they work with yours, but the previous owner of my rig gave me the stock Ring and Pinions from my rig. I'd let them go cheap if you wanted them. Pretty sure they are 4.10's.

JH

[Rob]

It's an '82 so it's a 3:70 and a 9.5-inch ring gear. Every FJ40 before, I think, 1979 had 4:10s.

[Haku]

ah....so no help from me on that one then. The ones I have are 8 inch ring gears.

JH

[Rob]

No problem. The 40s have big-ass ring gears.

[scout man]

I think 4.88's will be too low for a 3 speed auto. I would wait until you can get another set of 4.56's and do it right the first time.

That is pretty much what I decided. I just need to find one, as money is very very tight right now. I have 3.54s right now, which just doesnt cut it, so I really need something else, and I need to go as cheap as I possibly can. I am going to soak the 2 carriers I have and try to clean them up the best that I can, since I really dont want to buy new ones, then try to find the 4.56. Unfortunately I have to use used ones since I dont have the money for new ones right now, and wont for a long time. I dont mind a little noise. I would love the help setting them up if you are willing. I can be flexible with time, and of course I need to find another R&P first. Do I need to buy some sort of a shim kit or something?

[scout man]

alright, thanks for the info

[scout man]

these gears a little more to your guys liking?? :D

As Nick said, looks like the guy took them out of the box, dipped them in gear oil, and put them back in. This is the 4.56 i just bought for $40, talking with another guy now about maybe picking up another brand new one. Still waiting to hear from him about price, but I can get them on ebay for $118 with free shipping, so it will definitely be less than that.
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[Brody]

Yes, indeed! Those look like something you can stick in your rig and be happy about...

[scout man]

alright, picking up another ring and pinion hopefully tuesday. I am going to clean up the housings I have, maybe take them by a parts washer, then pick up a $25 install kit from 4 wheel parts and I am good to go!! Adrian, you still interested in helping me get them set up? I am assuming we would only get one axle set up per day, so I am hoping that maybe you could teach me how to set them up on the rear axle, then i could drive home and do the front on my own?? Is this plausible? I dont know what I am doing, but I am a very faster learner. Just let me know what your thoughts are, if you are willing to help, and how much you would want for you trouble, and when you might be available. I really appreciate any help in this matter.

[scout man]

I have all my gears now! Anyone who knows what they are doing interested in helping me out with this/teaching me how for cheap? I dont have much more money to put out, but I can contribute a bit for the time/education.

[Fordguy77]

Hey steve, i am looking into buy some new gears for the donor axles on the B2 real soon. I was talking to josh about it, and he suggest an idea that i thought seemed pretty cool. If we could find someone who is willing to teach us, would it be cool to meet up at one place and have a Gear install day?

[scout man]

absolutely! As far as I am concerned, if we could both pay someone to teach us, then you and I can help each other set up the rest of our axles? so we can double check each other and help each other out? I am looking to get this done as cheap as I possibly can, and hopefully learn how to do it in the future.


Also, check out this article
http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup

[Fordguy77]

That sounds great! I will know by Friday if i am getting the gears or not, so i will let you know asap so things dont sit around for to long. Alright i'll check that article out in the am, i just clicked on it and its to much reading for tonight, but looks good. Off to bed i go.

[scout man]

cool, sounds good

[scout man]

Sounds GREAT Adrian! Thanks a lot! I have been reading up on them and realized this would in fact be very difficult without the correct tools. Just let me know when is good for you and I will be there! Right now I have both R&P sets, both carriers (althought I will be doing some cleanup on them maybe tomorrow), and I will pick up the basic instal kit for 4 wheel parts. Is there anything else I need? New bearings? Install bearing? I see a lot of stuff people say they need, but I have no clue, so if there is anything else I need to pick up let me know, I am kind of lost in this process.

also, I dont know your schedule at all, but I am also free evenings and whatnot if that works. maybe knock one out one evening and the other the next or something. Totally up to you though and I have no problem being patient and waiting for a good weekend.

[scout man]

these are on my scout right now, and the only ones I have. I dont have any old bearings, but I will see what I can come up with. do I need new bearings for the new carriers? I have heard that they tend to crush when you take them off the carrier, so if I get new ones for the final instal, I can use the old ones as install bearings.

[Fordguy77]

Well i am 85% certain i am going to order new gears tomorrow. Just kinda debating weather i want 4.11's or 4.56's. The good news is the axles i need to do gears on are sitting in the garage and are upgrades so they can be done just about anytime. Also i am debating between a locker and a spool and not sure which route to take just yet. I think its a little to small of a wheel base for a spool in my opinion. Its 96in. Any thoughts?

[scout man]

what size tires are you running? and what kind of locker are you considering?

[Haku]

Well i am 85% certain i am going to order new gears tomorrow. Just kinda debating weather i want 4.11's or 4.56's. The good news is the axles i need to do gears on are sitting in the garage and are upgrades so they can be done just about anytime. Also i am debating between a locker and a spool and not sure which route to take just yet. I think its a little to small of a wheel base for a spool in my opinion. Its 96in. Any thoughts?

Really depends on how much "normal" driving you are planning on doing with it. I welded the rear end of my Samurai (20" shorter wheelbase then your rig) and it did fine, but chirped around corners, especially when aired down a bit. You'll get more tire wear with it spooled. If you are just driving to the trails with it, then I think you would be fine. Daily Driving it might get annoying though. Auto-lockers aren't that much more money then a spool though, so you might look into those. Ausi Lockers or the Detroit EZlocker/Lockright are both good lockers that are only about $250 or so per axle. Oh, and I'm assuming this is for the rear axle. Definitely do not spool the front axle. Steering will suffer immensely, both in turning radius and difficulty steering. Selectible or an Autolocker is the only way to go in a front axle.

Gear ratio's will depend largely on tire size and what the gearing of the transmission you are using has. For some 4.10's aren't enough, but for others its perfect. Personally, I'd probably err on the side of too low rather then too high a gearing. I'm guessing that 4.10's would be good for 33" tires or less. If you are going bigger then that, go with the 4.56 gears. I know my 5.29 gears in my Toyota seem about perfect for 35-37" tires, but then again, most Toyota Trucks came with 4.10 gears stock.

JH

[Fordguy77]

I'm leaving the front open, probably will regret it later, but its not going to be a hard core rig. I am putting it on 33's for now, but 35's are in the future for sure. I have 3.73's in them now. The cheapest locker i could found is arould $580.

[scout man]

I think I would go to 4.56. SHould work well with 33s or 35s, and if you have 3.73 stock, 4.10 isnt really that big of a step IMO. Look at the aussie locker. I really like what I have read about it, and for a dana 44 it is $250. Not sure what axles you have, or how the price varies. If I had the money, I think I would buy one before this instal... but i dont right now. We will see.

[Fordguy77]

Yeah i think i will go with the 4.56s so i don't have to re gear again later. Thanks for the leads on the aussie lockers. They are way cheaper than any of the others ones out there for that 8.8 Rear end. Just ordered My gears.

[Fordguy77]

Did you get the hardened, notched crosspin?

yeah, i was supposed to right?

[scout man]

So when would be a good time to get this done? And do you know of anyplace I can order just the bearings? I have only found them in a master install kit, and I really dont want to buy 2 master install kits.

[scout man]

You do have the carriers for these right?

I do... they are used though, and have some slight surface rust, but it is really the only thing I can afford. My plan is to take the wire brush and oil and stuff to them and clean them up as best as I can, and maybe put them through a parts washer somewhere. I understand the not wanting to use rusty stuff, but I think I can get them all cleaned up. I will take a crack at them today and see where I get.

[scout man]

Rust on a carrier is a little different than rust on a ring and pinion. Just get them cleaned up as best as you can. If they have bearings on them, we can use them as the set up bearings. Just pull them off and use a die grinder on the inside until they just slide on and off the carrier.

good to know. Alright, at this point I just need to grab the instal kit from 4 wheel parts, and grab some good final instal bearings from probably NAPA. I should be ready to roll by next weekend... not that you have to be, but I will be for whenever you are ready. Just let me know, I am usually pretty flexible.

One of the carriers has bearing on it and one doesnt, but the on that does they are pretty rusted anyways so might not work for the install bearings. But between those and the ones in there now we should be in good shape.

[scout man]

Alright, I need to run to 4 wheel parts tomorrow for the install kit (which should be in stock), then I am 100% ready to go. I bought new bearings and cups today (didnt know if I needed cups, but they were cheap anyways). I also spent some time cleaning up the carriers, and I think they are probably good enough to go in. I am ready when you are Adrian, just let me know when is a good time for you and we can knock this out. Thanks!

[scout man]

Ok, so I am still looking for someone to install, but this time I have some money to offer up. Not really enough to have a shop do it, but I could probably offer $100+ if that would make it worth anyones time. Let me know if anyone is interested, or knows someone that might be!!