foxtrot's 89' 4runner project

[foxtrot]

I just got this 4runner from a guy in denver. traded my truck for it and a 90 4runner (will be in a different thread).

Here is what it has so far:
straight axle swap
5.29 gears
marlin crawler high steer knuckles with all pro 1 ton tie rod and FJ 80 ends
long travel shocks with ford F150 shock towers
chevy rear spring conversion and helper springs up front
35 inch MTR's on rock crawler rims
smitty built front and rear bumpers with off road lights
rock sliders
all seats out of a 91 runner which fit perfectly, even the back
altimiter and roll guages
Not sure of the size of the lift, but it sits up pretty high
extended breather for diff.
cb radio with PA system :2thumbup:
front square driveshaft

What I have but not yet installed:
axle gusset
Drag Link - 33 1/2" w/ends & jam nuts from all-pro

what I plan to do before 2011:
arb air lockers front and rear
onboard air system
5 point harnesses
external or internal roll cage
custom dash out of sheet metal
dual transfer case setup

and for a couple teaser pictures, I will get more tomorrow:
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/IMAG0001.jpg

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/0_IMAG0002.jpg

and the 90:
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/downsized_0314001613.jpg

[Rob]

Sweet trade and a good plan to go with it. :thunb:

[Mporter]

Nice. I'm guessing you could do an exocage pretty easy considering the style of your bumper(s) and sliders.

[Haku]

Slick rig for sure. Mine is setup pretty much the same way, with Dual Cases and E-lockers added too. You'll be amazed at where that thing can get, even with open diffs. If its a purely a trail rig (even if you drive it to the trail) its not horrible to spool the rear axle. Much cheaper then going ARB. People have also had good luck with the auto lockers, of which there are several brands. Its still good to have the front locker be selectable, as it effects steering and axle breakage a lot more then the rear.

If you plan on wheeling some harder stuff, before you lock the front you should definitely consider getting some Longfield Chromo axle shafts. 35" tires are at the limit of common breakage with a locked front on stock axle shafts, so its definitely worth investing in. They are warrantied for life, no questions asked, and good guys to deal with. Trail Gear has a slightly cheaper knockoff version too, with the same warranty.

Good plans though. Very similar to my goals and so far its turning out to not be too complicated or hard, just plugging away at it as I can afford it. Check out my build thread for some ideas, and all the stuff I've been doing. Just did the axle trussing using some 1 3/4" tubing, and it looks pretty good if I might say so. Worth doing knuckle gussets as well, and can be sourced from most of the Toyota aftermarket manufacturers for around $40. Good cheap and easy modification.

JH

[Volcom]

Nice rig! I love my 84 4Runner. I'd ditch the rear bumper as fast as you can. It looks to be a major rear hanger on the rocks. I wheeled mine with no rear bumper for years and only took minor damage to it on normal trails (I took a ton of damage to the rear quarter panels & tailgate on BV Carnage and Indy though).

I'm working on an on board air system as we speak for my 4Runner. I'll post up the details after I get it up & running, it might give you some ideas for an OBA system in your future projects.

[foxtrot]

I'm working on an on board air system as we speak for my 4Runner. I'll post up the details after I get it up & running, it might give you some ideas for an OBA system in your future projects.

awesome, looking forward to the post. I am planning on converting the a/c compressor over and use that. I really need to just dig into the engine bay and remove all the crap the previous guy added in there. it's all ghetto rigged with zip ties and crap so I am taking everything extra out and redoing it all.

[foxtrot]

Slick rig for sure. Mine is setup pretty much the same way, with Dual Cases and E-lockers added too. You'll be amazed at where that thing can get, even with open diffs. If its a purely a trail rig (even if you drive it to the trail) its not horrible to spool the rear axle. Much cheaper then going ARB. People have also had good luck with the auto lockers, of which there are several brands. Its still good to have the front locker be selectable, as it effects steering and axle breakage a lot more then the rear.

If you plan on wheeling some harder stuff, before you lock the front you should definitely consider getting some Longfield Chromo axle shafts. 35" tires are at the limit of common breakage with a locked front on stock axle shafts, so its definitely worth investing in. They are warrantied for life, no questions asked, and good guys to deal with. Trail Gear has a slightly cheaper knockoff version too, with the same warranty.

Good plans though. Very similar to my goals and so far its turning out to not be too complicated or hard, just plugging away at it as I can afford it. Check out my build thread for some ideas, and all the stuff I've been doing. Just did the axle trussing using some 1 3/4" tubing, and it looks pretty good if I might say so. Worth doing knuckle gussets as well, and can be sourced from most of the Toyota aftermarket manufacturers for around $40. Good cheap and easy modification.

JH

I'm pretty sure the SAS is out of an older yota with the solid axle, but is there any way to make sure? I can't find the model number stamped anywhere but I'm probably just missing it.

It was funny when I was buying it, the guy said that the breather was extended for deep water but, after looking at it, only the rear is extended, and the front is still in the stock position. So what am I supposed to do? back into the water? :erm:

how do I spool the rear axle? haven't heard of this before.

[Volcom]

I am planning on converting the a/c compressor over and use that.

That's how I'm going to run mine.

Take a picture of the front axle if you get a chance. If it has a bottom gusset that runs from the diff almost all the way to the knuckle ball, it's either an 84 or 85. If it has a shorter gusset, it's an 83 and no gusset, it's from a 79-82. They are all the same axles (for the most part, the older solid axles had different hubs rather than the Aisin locking hubs that appear to be on yours) so don't sweat it not having a full bottom gusset.

[Chris]

I'm working on an on board air system as we speak for my 4Runner.

Here's the write-up on mine, complete with part numbers.

[Fordguy77]

Here's the write-up on mine, complete with part numbers.

where?

[foxtrot]

:erm: where lol

[Chris]

Here: http://frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4145 :redface:

[Fordguy77]

Here: http://frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4145 :redface:
Sweet thanks

[JeffX]

Not bad. Looks pretty built. I recommend the dual t-cases first.

[Haku]

I'm pretty sure the SAS is out of an older yota with the solid axle, but is there any way to make sure? I can't find the model number stamped anywhere but I'm probably just missing it.

It was funny when I was buying it, the guy said that the breather was extended for deep water but, after looking at it, only the rear is extended, and the front is still in the stock position. So what am I supposed to do? back into the water? :erm:

how do I spool the rear axle? haven't heard of this before.

Like Volcom said, take a picture of the axle. Looking at your pictures above, it defintely looks like a Minitruck (the term used for the Toyota Pickup and 4runner when you talk about both) axle, but there are some differences between the years. They are all the same length though, so you should be fine. There is a chance that they used a Fj40 axle, which is the same as far as knuckles and differential but has slightly different dimensions from the diff to the knuckles (on the FJ, the short side is longer and the long side is shorter i.e. the diff is slightly more towards center). Anyways, take a pic of it for us when you get the chance. I'd say swing by and I can go over it, but its a bit of a drive just for that.

JH

[foxtrot]

here she is:

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/0_IMAG0004.jpg

[Haku]

Score!! Congrats, you have the most desirable of the Toyota Minitruck front solid axles. That is one out of an 85'. You can tell because it has the square truss that extends past the Ubolts on the bottom. Earlier models either had shorter trusses, or no truss at all. You think about getting some diff armor and a flatening kit for the drain plug. Easy enough to weld a piece of tube around it so it doesn't get scraped up. Lots of options for diff armor, all between $30-60. Definitely want to protect it from rocks and such. Adding an upper truss and some knuckle gussets is another good way to spend $100 on your rig too. Just be ultra super duper careful when you do the trussing, as these axles are very prone to warping when you weld on them. Do a tiny bit at a time, and spread it out over the whole axle, rather then doing one big long weld.

You have a really good basis to start with on that truck. All the stuff they have done to it is what everyone starts with and adds from there, so that is good. Get lockers front and rear, and you'll be able to do 90% of the trails (doing all the hard lines) in Colorado just as you sit.

JH

[foxtrot]

so on the front axlle, what does locking the hubs do? that is different than a locker right?

[Haku]

Yes, locking hubs are different then a locker. The hubs are technically called Freewheeling Hubs. This is because when they "open" or unlocked, they disengage the wheels from the differential (essentially they pull the hub gear off the end of the axle shaft). So when open, no power is going to the front wheels. This reduces wear, and makes a huge difference in gas mileage. When you lock them, then the power goes to the front wheels.

When people say Lockers, they mean a locker for the differential. A normal differential is designed to all one wheel to travel at a different speed then the other one. If you think about it, when you turn, the inside wheel doesn't travel as far as the outside one. This is great for driving on pavement, but has negative effects offroad. Because of the differential, power goes to the tire that has the least traction, so if you hit a soft spot or one wheel lifts, all the power goes there, rather then to where its needed. What a locker does, is link the two sides of the axle, so both wheels always turn and have power. No more ultra spinning tire on one side and the other not move at all. Having this opens up many trails that you wouldn't normally be able to get up without them.

There are lots of options for lockers. Everything from literally welding the spider gears inside the diff carrier together, all the way up to ARB air lockers. Downside to the welding thing, is that the diff is always locked, so you'll be having chirping tires and more load on the drivetrain. Its as cheap as the welding wire and gas you use to do the welding. Downside to ARB's is the price, but you get to turn them on and off. There are middle of the line options like Detroit lockrights and Ausi Lockers, which are auto lockers. Essentially they have a cam/ratchet type thing in them that locks the axle when you are under power, but they are unlocked when you aren't. By coasting around corners on road, you get the effect of having an unlocked axle, but have it when trying to climb a loose slippery hill offroad. They are about half the price or less of ARB's and have many happy customers.

Lots of info out there on lockers and the upsides and downsides to them. In general, I recommend having a selectible locker (ARB or an E-locker) up front, and a spool (same as welding it, but its reversible) or auto locker in the rear. Reason being that the front axle is more delicate and steering is harder with it locked, so its nice to be able to turn it on and off. Parts will last much longer, and you don't need the front locker for general trail use as much as the rear one.

JH

[Volcom]

This 4Runner your DD? I'd suggest Aussie lockers F&R. For $199 an axle, you can't find a better deal on stout lockers for your Toyota. I've ran them for 3 years now, 2 of them on 40" tires.

[Brody]

Aussie Locker Review and Install from Yota Tech:

http://yotatech.com/f105/aussie-locker-review-143163/

As far as hubs go, if you are sticking with the IFS for awhile and want to run manual hubs, you can still find these in a junkyard. If you want manual hubs for an SAS and don't have them, they are very hard to find in town anymore as they seem to vanish off of Yotas before they enter the junkyards. Dave'z Performance Off Road( in Cali, and listed in out vendors and friends of Front Range) sells reconditioned hubs for about the best price you can get.

Here is that link:

http://www.davezoffroadperformance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118

For more information and a breakdown of the Aisin (and don't go with Warn as the Aisin hubs are some of the strongest on the market) hubs, see this link:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page2

Post #36, Rebuilding Aisin manual hubs.

For more information on the various brands and styles of lockers and what they do and don't do, see this link:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?3927-Locker-Information-Links&highlight=locker

Most of this information you are asking questions about is on the forum already and is either listed in the Tech Links or Toyota Make and Model threads. Using the forum 'search' feature will also help to find specific information. Another very valuable source of information is the Toyota FAQ from Pirate 4x4. Here is that link:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS

Post #47, Pirate Toyota FAQ

[foxtrot]

it won't be my DD, if you look at the first post, the pic of the 90 is my DD. but I will drive it to the trail.

I noticed today that it leans to the left (divers side). Here is a picture of it:
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/0_IMAG0005-1.jpg

think it is just springs wearing out? or could it be something broken?:confused:

[Mporter]

Probably just the springs being worn out. I know there's the infamous "cruiser lean" that a lot of landcruiser have which does the same thing. Talk to Chris about how he fixed his (if you see one of his build threads, you will see what I'm talking about).

[Chris]

"Cruiser Lean" is peculiar to the 60 series with OME springs Matt. I've never seen it on a 4runner so my guess is some broken springs, not always visible until you take the m off.

[Rob]

"Cruiser Lean" is peculiar to the 60 series

40s have the lean, too. At least mine does.

[Haku]

Mine has a slight lean to it too. Only way to know is to get under the rig and look around. Always good to invest in a grease gun and a can of WD40 and go to town on all the bushings, joints, and anywhere there is a zirk fitting. I don't do this nearly enough, but plan on making it a "afternoon the day before the run" check up. Torque wrench is also a good investment. Check all the ubolts are tight, and the bolts holding the steering arm to the knuckle are really important to be tight too (manual calls for 80 foot/pounds of torque on those). Thats a "gonna be a looooong day on the trail" breakage.

For the springs, check to see if the bushings at each end of the leafs are intact, have a look at the ubolts and the leafs where they go through them. Air Randy on here had an entire leaf pack split right where the locator bolt goes through the leaf springs (check out the trip report from Old Chinaman Gulch last November) mid trail. Definitely something you want to catch in the driveway and not on the trail. If you want to come up here sometime, I'd be happy to help you go over your rig and make sure everything seems right. Oh, and check for cracks in the frame, both where the spring hanger on the front bumper is, and where the shock tower mounts. I've seen both break, and experience the shock tower one myself. Its fixable either way, but much easier if you catch it early.

JH

[foxtrot]

do you kow the foot pounds for the ubolts? I am going to go through the whole rig tomorrow and tighten every little bolt down, and my new tie rod is supposed to come in :)

[Haku]

Here is a link to the Factory Service Manuals for you rig (and many others). It will have all the torque specs for you. 80-100ft/lb is a good safe bet for stuff like that though. Thats a good download, and pretty much tells you how to remove, inspect, repair and reinstall everything on your truck as it was sitting stock. Its largely still stock, despite the larger tires and lift, so its a big help.

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

JH

[foxtrot]

ok cool, thanks. do you guys know if the smitty built rear bumper on the 89 will fit opn the 90? like said before, it snags on everything, just today, I was crawling over a small boulder, and the rest of the truck cleared fine, but as soon as the abck tire came off, "SMACK" and there is now a huge flat spot on one of the tubes :(

[Haku]

You could probably get it to fit, but it would probably take some modification to either the bumper or the frame mounts. Not sure though. I can see in your avatar that it hangs pretty low and I can see how it would be a rock anchor.

JH

[foxtrot]

any suggestions on a good rear bumper for the 89? i want something that more hugs the body

[Brody]

Looks like you have the kind of old school Smitty Built style double tube bumper. I simply flipped this on a a customer's rig when he was broke and couldn't get a new bumper. Just cut it off from the mounts, tweaked the mounts some, turned the bumper upside down and remounted it with the hitch ball on top of the mount, I believe.. Got lots of clearance without a huge amount of grief. Of course, you have to have a welder and the ability to weld and the customer helped a lot to save some bucks, but we managed to do this whole thing in a bit over an hour.

Happy to do this with you at some point, but you'll have to get your rig to Denver Town. Probably cost $35 or so...

You really need to look at the Toyota section in the make and model links thread. Every question you have both asked about and people have answered, including the latest one where Josh showed the factory service manuals link, and your question about torque specs, are found in the Toyota Make and Model Section. There is an awful lot of information on this site.

Here was your answer to the dual or rebuild of the Yota Tcase:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page2

Post #34

Here is the link to the factory service manuals:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page3

Post #27

Here is the link for spring information:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page4

Post #13

All sorts of basic maintenance:

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?8745-TOYOYA-INFORMATION-AND-LINKS/page5

Post #6

Almost everything not individually posted in the Toyota Make and Model section can be found in the Pirate Toyota FAQ, which is also linked there.

Almost all of your Toyota questions can be answered by going to the Pirate4x4.com TOYOTA FAQ. Please go here first as it is probably the most comprehensive source of Toyota information to be found anywhere on the internet.

Official Pirate Toyota FAQ:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459180 As far as your lean goes, on the pick ups and 4Runners, Toyota had non equal spring pads on their front axle, with one side being 3/8" to 1/2" higher than the other due to the design of the axle. A lot of after market spring companies addressed this issue with their replacement spring packs where they either specifically marked left and right or driver and passenger side and had a shorter (one less leaf or block) spring on one side to compensate for this. The PO may have flipped the after market spring packs and installed them on the wrong side, used a reversed set of 84 (or other year) rear springs in the front (very common) or butchered together a set of Yota, Wrangler, and Mitsu springs like I did. Any of these could result in the lean.

So could a broken or damaged leaf. My guess is that it is the former rather then the latter. Damaged spring bushings could result in the lean, too. When you are underneath your rig tightening everything down, look at the bushings on either end of the springs, count the leaves, and inspect the springs.

As far as needing specific torques on anything, for basic tightening under your rig, you are not going to over tighten anything unless you are using a 1/2" air tool or a long breaker bar. A 3/8" driver will get everything up to 14mm tight enough except for the tranny, transfer case and engine mount bolts. Use the 1/2 on these..and on the spring U bolts and steering arm nuts. I do this every 2 weeks as a matter of course on my rig and the only thing I ever check torque on are my lug nuts. Takes about 20 minutes to tighten everything you can possibly reach under your rig. While you are under there, you should both oil and adjust your e brake cable...just hit everything that moves with some spray on lithium grease, regular oil, or WD 40.

[Brody]

any suggestions on a good rear bumper for the 89? i want something that more hugs the body

Talk to me and Sean. We can build either a plate, tube or combo bumper to fit your rig.

One of the things to consider when you are looking at stuff for bumpers is that many people lose the lower rear part of the rear quarter panel for ground clearance (right at the body line) and have the new bumper (with some actual steel) replace this piece. Another thing is that, instead of cutting off this piece, is to add an extension of 1/4" steel to the outside of the body line attached to the bumper that does the same thing.

[foxtrot]

well, I went out today to tighten everything on the rig today. sat down under the rear bumper and this is what i see:

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/0_IMAG0006.jpg :eek:

I inspected it before I drove it from denver, and that bolt was there. so I guess everything really did need tightening up :erm: glad I caught it before the bolt decided too wiggle itself out

[Mporter]

Daang...good thing you found it now. Would have been an interesting ride somewhere down the road.

[Patrolman]

That is why I only use nylock nuts on grade 8 bolts with grade 8 washers. Avoids almost any loosening or failure. Isn't cheap, but worth soe extra $.

[foxtrot]

anyone have any ideas on how to get the old drag link out? I have hit it with a roofing hammer about 100 times and it won't budge.

[Volcom]

That is why I only use nylock nuts on grade 8 bolts with grade 8 washers. Avoids almost any loosening or failure. Isn't cheap, but worth soe extra $.

I've had good luck with Stover nuts on my suspension.
10748

[Volcom]

anyone have any ideas on how to get the old drag link out? I have hit it with a roofing hammer about 100 times and it won't budge.

You running the stock J-arm steering? I removed the steering arms with the drag link attached and it ended up in my backyard in the scrap pile (I was installing hi-steer). :D

I've also used a pickle fork (tie rod remover) with decent success. They tend to tear up the boots on the TRE's though.

[foxtrot]

well the new one is supposed to fix my speed wobble problem. when I get to 30-35 it starts wobbling like crazy. tires just go back and forth. would the drag link cause this?

[Volcom]

well the new one is supposed to fix my speed wobble problem. when I get to 30-35 it starts wobbling like crazy. tires just go back and forth. would the drag link cause this?

Is it death wobble or speed wobble? Death wobble is introduced when you get up to speed and then hit a bump or dip in the road. The steering wheel turns back & forth in an uncontrollable shaking that is only stopped when you slow down. Speed wobble is your steering getting worse & worse the faster you go. There are many factors that cause death wobble in a frontend. Improperly worn tires, loose front shackes, warn wheel bearings, loose & worn trunion bearings, worn tie rod ends, bad caster, slop in your steering box, etc.....

My 4Runner has some bad death wobble when ran without hydro assist. The hydro assist masks the problem.

I doubt a new drag link is going to cure your wobble problem. A drag link is just a piece of tubing.

[foxtrot]

well its the drag link with ends and all, the old one is a ghetto rigged one that was cut and all welded together, including the ends, and yes it is the death wobble, but it does not affect the steering wheel

[Volcom]

well its the drag link with ends and all, the old one is a ghetto rigged one that was cut and all welded together, including the ends, and yes it is the death wobble, but it does not affect the steering wheel

That doesn't sound safe. Steering & brakes are 2 things I don't take for granted on a rig. The end are called tie rod ends. If they are old & beat, that could cause your wobble issues. It doesn't sound like death wobble if it's not affecting the steering wheel. Death wobble is insane, it rips the steering wheel right out of your hands and moves back & forth at 100mph with nothing stopping it besides slowing down. That's why they call it death wobble.

Looking at your front axle picture on the first page this thread, you've got high steer. You are using FJ80 tie rod ends. They are probably worn. Also, check the tightness of the shackes. Jack up one side of the front axle and grab the tire at noon & 6 o'clock. Is there any play when you try and move it up & down? If there is, could be trunion (king pin) bearings in the top of the knuckle. Grab the tire at 9 & 3 o'clock and move it side to side. If there's alot of play, those are wheel bearings.

[foxtrot]

they look pretty work out. the wobble is basically, when you hit about 35, the wheels start wobbling back and forth, and it looks pretty violent from looking out the window, but the steering wheel doesn't move. so it is going side to side like the death wobble, but the steering wheel does not move

[foxtrot]

So I am pretty much cutting it close afor the anniv. run also. the drag link might not be in until tomorrow night, but I will stay up to get it done. I dont get off of work till midnight, so should be fun. I got the leaf spring all squared away today :thunb:

[Haku]

I was getting that same thing really bad. Turns out I hadn't tightened the nut that holds the wheel hub on (its the one you use the 54mm socket on) enough, and the wheel was flopping around. Right around 35mph it would start to wobble, and if you didn't power through it, it would get worse and you'd have to slow down to below 20 to get it to stop. Might be worth taking the hub off and making sure that nut is tight. Thats the one nut I don't follow the Factory Service Manual on. I get it pretty much as tight as I can with a ratchet. As long as the wheel still turns, you won't cause damage. I would much rather that be too tight then not tight enough.

I'd offer to come down and help you out with that, but I have my own stuff to do to get ready.

JH

[Haku]

anyone have any ideas on how to get the old drag link out? I have hit it with a roofing hammer about 100 times and it won't budge.

Your best bet is to get a tie rod/pitman arm puller. There are two styles, and both work fine. First is the one that has a bolt that makes contact with the tie rod bolt and looks like this...

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-tech/42588d1207678439-help-tie-rod-replacement-1987-mustang-5-0-tie-rod-puller.jpg

the second is one that essentially splits it and looks like this...

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/spider-1966-up/152682d1253858237-center-link-tie-rod-ends-puller2.jpg

Either should work, but I prefer the first one. You can find these at any Auto Parts store. Harbor Freight has one thats like $5 or something. Liberal amounts of a penetrating oil like PB Blaster helps too. Good luck.

JH

[foxtrot]

anyone know where the heck to get a 54mm socket at? biggest I can find is 32 mm

[Chris]

Mine's out on loan. :(

[Volcom]

anyone know where the heck to get a 54mm socket at? biggest I can find is 32 mm
I bought a 2 1/8" socket at Sears that works (works out to be 54mm). Problem is they are @ $30. Marlin sells one for $35 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/tools/54mm-socket) Scotty at Addicted Off Road can get you a Trail Gear socket for $14 (http://www.trail-gear.com/knuckle-service) if you call him.

[Haku]

anyone know where the heck to get a 54mm socket at? biggest I can find is 32 mm

I found mine at Toolking up here in Lakewood. Call around to the NAPA or Carquest or one of the other car places. I think I ended up getting a 55mm one, which works fine.

A happy top for getting the cone washers that hold the freewheeling hub on is to get a small 9like jewelers sized) flat head screwdriver. Take the normal washers off, and then look for the split in the cone washer. Using a hammer, lightly tap the screwdriver into that split and it will spread the cone washer out and you can just pull it out. I've seen guys go to town on a lockout hub for 20 minutes, when they could have done it in a delicate way that doesn't ding up the hub housing. There is also a C-clip on the end of the axle shaft you have to get off. You can do it with a screwdriver, but its a bunch easier with snap ring pliers. Good luck.

JH

[foxtrot]

So what all do i need to take off to get to the massive nut? just want to make sure not to damage anything and make sure I do it right

[Haku]

First off, jack the rig up on one side in place that doesn't interfere with the wheel. To see if a wheelbearing is going out or if something is loose, jiggle the wheel inwards and outwards along the axis of axle. If you feel movement inwards and outwards, then its probably a wheel bearing. If it feels loose up and down, then it could be trunion bearings (part that holds the knuckle onto the axle housing and which are the pivot point). If everything feels pretty solid, then you probably don't have any issues inside. Thats not a for sure thing though, and the only way to know is to tear the thing apart.

To get at the wheel nut, you have to take the lockout hub off, which takes a 10mm socket, a 12mm socket, a small flathead screwdriver and a hammer (as outlined in my previous post). It would help to have a snap ring pliers to get the c-clip off, but you can do it with some needle nose pliers or a couple of screwdrivers if you don't have some.

Put your rig up on jackstands and take the wheel off.

Take the dial cover off first, using the 10mm socket. Put it into the "free" position before you do this. Once you take the bolts off, it should come right off. You'll see the C-clip attached to the end of the splined axle shaft. Remove it. Then, using a 12mm socket, undo the bolts that hold the lockout hub housing to the wheel hub. Take the flat washers off too. The cone washers are under there. There should be enough space to get a small thin flathead screw driver into the split of the cone washer. Tap the screw driver in, and this should loosen the cone washers enough to slip them off the stud. Once you have all of those removed, the hub housing should slip right off.

The large 54mm nuts are in now accessible, though they may be hard to see in the grease. There are two of them, with a star washer in between. Take the first one off, then slip the star washer off. You'll now have access to the inner nut. The FSM has a procedure to go through where you torque it a certain amount and then spin it and then retorque and then test how hard it is to spin the wheel and then back it off a little. This is overly complicated and hard to get right. At Brody's recommendation I just tightened it down pretty much as hard as I could using a breaker bar. This was with the vehicle sitting on jack stands though, so I would say get it pretty tight, but don't be a gorrilla and jump on it or try to torque it as hard as you can. Brody uses a 3/8 drive ratchet on his, and does it as tight as he can with that. Spin the whole wheel hub/brake disc to make sure it still spins freely. Once thats done, put the star washer back on, then tthe outer wheel nut. Tighten that down pretty good too. The star washer is designed to lock the inner and outer wheel nuts together. Some of the tabs will be bent in, and the others out. If they aren't, do that with a screwdriver. To install the lockout hub, just do the reverse of taking them off. You don't have to do the screw driver in the slit trick to put them on though. Tightening the nuts down will put the cone washers in the right place. Torque rating for those is 18 ft/lbs, so snug but not gorilla tight.

While you have the lockout hub and such off, it never hurts to take the inner wheel nut(54mm one) off, slide the disc brake/wheel hub off, clean all the grease out, and repack the bearings (smear grease all over them), then add liberal amounts of grease to the inside. Takes an extra 10 minutes and isn't a hard job. The outer wheel bearing will fall out, so don't let it hit the ground.

Sounds more complicated then it is really. I'd say it will take an hour per side at the longest. Hope that helps.

JH

[foxtrot]

help!!!, I tightened the 54mm bolts down, put everything back together, and the hubs are locked now. they were unlocked when I started, and thy won't turn without a screwdriver and a couple light taps of a hammer. cannot turn by hand. when its in free or locked position, its locked. I know I put it back together right. what could it be

[Volcom]

Did you pack the locking hubs full of grease? Putting to much grease in them will make them really hard to turn.

[foxtrot]

no, I put a little in, but I didn't have any extra. but it wont dis engage from the hub. even when its in free position, my front driveshaft still turns

[foxtrot]

could it make a difference if the outer most part, the part that turns, is upside down?

[Volcom]

It doesn't sound like you got the dial installed correctly into the hub body. When you turn the dial to free, it pulls the locking mechanism away from the hub gear.

[foxtrot]

ok, im gonna go ot and make sure.

[Haku]

Volcom is right. When you install the dial onto the hub, you have to make sure its in the free position, and that the gear attached to the spring is sucked all the way against the dial plate. If you look at the dial itself, there is grooved channel that as you rotate it, it slopes and pulls the gear towards the dial. Rotate that gear till its as close to the dial as it can be while still in that groove. Once thats done, re-install it into the hub housing and bolt it on.

JH

[foxtrot]

yep, its good now. one of those little metal clips that hold it in that groove was bent, soI bent it back and it works now. the wobble is still there. the 54mm were hand loose, so I tightened, now just waiting on the drag link to come from ups.

[foxtrot]

also, there was no play in the wheel at all. so all the bearings seem good.

[Volcom]

Check the steering arm nuts that hold it onto the knuckle. You should actually check those before every trail run. They work themselves loose and you'll start shearing knuckle studs. Not fun at all.

[foxtrot]

so the pickle fork didnt work to get it off. does anyone know if walmart sells one of those pullers

[Haku]

Autozone, Advance, Checker, NAPA, or any number of auto parts stores should have those in stock. Walmart might, but not completely sure.

JH

[foxtrot]

well, as of now, I don't get off till midnight. so everywhere will be closed. do you think one of those pulley pullers with the 3 claws would work?

[Haku]

Yeah....will probably work fine. Should be able to find three spots to clamp to it. If you can find one with two even better. I had the same kind of trouble you are having with my Samurai (previous trail rig). Ended up taking copious amounts of PB Blaster and a ton of force on the puller, and once it went it came out hard.

Sounds like you need to do a full overhaul on this thing. Have you thought about driving the other 4Runner tomorrow and not have to stress about finishing this in wee hours of the morning? The trail we are doing isn't much, and the stock one will be able to handle it just fine.

JH

[foxtrot]

I though about taking the other one, but with the snow, the other one wouldn't do very good. it has very bald tires. I had a friend work on it, and its ready to be taken off and the new one is all ready to put on. I went to checkers on lunch and rented a puller, and got the biggest one, so it should take me about an hour when Iget home. also put pb blaster on this morning so it is:thunb: soaking in

[Brody]

Hey Brad

Your rig looks good and I hope the death wobble, whatever it was , it now gone.

One thing I noticed is that you need to put some cross bracing (piece of flat stock, tube or rectangular) between the sides of your extended rear shackles. They flex a bit too much from side to side and this has to be causing some wobble, too. Fast and easy to do and you will not lose any off road flex. The brace will also keep the shackle bolt holes from getting worn out fast.

Someone down in the Springs with a welder pick up on this please. I would help out, but I am in Arvada.

[foxtrot]

awesome, good isea pete. I have a welder at home, it is an old school one with the welding rods, and not a very big one. but I suppose it will work. death wobble iss still there. I went to sears today and got a 2 1/8" socket because the 55mm one kept slipping off and I could not get it super tight. It started to go away once I tightened them, but came right back. would anyone reccoment using thread locker? or not on this nut?

[Haku]

Is there a star washer on there? The brass one with the nubs on it in this picture....
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/w/h/wheelbearingnutkit_1.jpg

That should be sufficient to keep it tight without any thread sealer on it. Suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it though. With mine, I got it as tight as I could get it before it slipped off like you are saying. Rides fine and no wobble.

Explain exactly what the symptoms of the wobble are. Does it always happen when you go over 35mph? Start on flats or in reaction to a bump? How fast is the wobble? Feel it through the steering wheel or just a vibration through the floor?

Did you inspect your wheel bearings when you went to tighten then nut? Its worth pulling the whole rotor/wheel hub off and having a look at the bearing if you didn't.

Death wobble is caused by several things. It can be caused be improper caster angle (pinion angle essentially). You want the pinion to be angled up towards the t-case a bit when sitting on flat ground. If it isn't, you might have to install caster shims, or even do a cut and turn to remedy it. Shouldn't be the case with your rig, but might be.

It can also be caused by the shackles not properly clamping on the spring pack or its frame mount. Several people make "no death wobble" shackles that seem to remedy this for most people. The ones I would go with are the Davez Offroad ones.... http://www.davezoffroadperformance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19&start=0&hilit=shackle (top of the page). They add a spacer in that really clamps down on the leaf spring bushing and it eliminates most of the play in the system. You could probably figure out a way to upgrade the ones that are on there now to do the same thing though. Kind of wish I had hopped in for a ride in your rig the other day. Much easier to diagnose in person.

JH

[foxtrot]

ya me to lol, the death wobble: tires are going left to right, kinda like they are pulling at each other. steering wheel is not affected at all. only tires/rims are going back and forth.happens every time above 35, and happens at 25 if I hit a bump. I don't really know what to look for in the bearings. they looked fine to me. the tire sits at an inward slope wheen on flat ground like this: /-----\ .

[foxtrot]

and yes, the washer is there.m but I could not get it that tight due to it slipping off. so I am going to try the new socket tomorrow

[Haku]

Almost seems like the Toe is off. Have you taken it to get aligned? Might just try undoing the jamb nut on the tie rod and turning it so it shortens a bit. You want the Toe to be just a tiny bit positive (tires pointing towards the center). Sounds like it could be a bit negative (pointing away from center) but not sure. Beyond that, its just about making sure that the wheel nut is right at this point. Get that decently tight and let us know I guess. Is it just a slight inward slope or pretty extreme? A bit of positive camber is fine, but if its a ton then thats an issue. As for the wheel bearings, just make sure that all the little rollers move correctly and look to be lined up well, and that the bearing isn't distorted or bent anywhere. Make sure the race is good too (the part that the bearing fits into) and doesn't have any warps or burrs, and is sitting straight. Get that sucker tight and let us know.

JH

[Brody]

That is starting to sound like one or both of your topside knuckle bearings are toast. That is what keeps the straight axle wheels aligned on a vertical plane. PITA to replace as you basically have to tear down the front end in order to replace the races and knuckle bearings. Ask Josh....

At any rate, Josh found bearings from somewhere for 1/2 the price that Yota charges for them. These are not the best things to have fail on you, either on the trail or the drive home.

Since this is a used truck, it would not be a bad idea to do a front end rebuild on it. If you can't afford the rebuild kits (Trail Gear, All Pro, Marlin, etc), especially after dropping bucks on the knuckle bearings, simply reuse everything like you would do on a trail fix. The gaskets can be replaced with RTV if you can't reuse them except for the inner rubber seal. Just repack all the bearings and Birfields, pack the knuckles with grease and see if it goes away. Wouldn't hurt to learn to do the axle anyhow as you will at least have a handle on how to fix junk on the trail if something goes wrong.

There are all sorts of front end rebuild links in the Yota section. Bout the only special things needed are the 54 mm socket and a long brass punch. Everything else is generic metric stuff.

[Haku]

The part I found for much cheaper then stock was the spindle bushing (the brass things that get pressed into the spindle). Low Range sells them for $18 each (rather then $32 at the Toyota dealer) if that is what you are talking about Brody. I hammered mine in with using a brass hammer and a piece of wood to make sure they didn't get messed up. The fit was too tight, so I had to go purchase a wheel cylinder hone to open up the inside a bit (the part the birf slides into).

If you are talking about the Trunion bearings, then Koyo brand ones are the only way to go. This means going with Marlin or All-Pro knuckle rebuild kit or going to the dealer to get them. The Trail Gear ones are cheap chinese knockoffs and are really crappy and WILL fail. Wheel Bearings you can use either Koyo or Timken with the Timken being cheaper but equal quality.

Those are the only things that might need replacing that could cause these issues.

JH

[foxtrot]

time to start saving :(

[foxtrot]

is this the rebuild kit you are talking about: http://allprooffroad.com/pickupdrivetrain/pickupwheelbearings

[Haku]

Yep, thats a good one. Marlin Crawler makes a good one too.... http://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/front-axle-parts/knuckle-service-kit . Might be worth replacing the wheel bearings at the same time, though if they look to be in good shape then cleaning all the grease out and repacking them is probably sufficient. Essentially, you want to make sure whichever kit you buy has the Japanese brand bearings in it. Anything else and they won't be good quality. Its worth spending the extra $14-24 for a quality kit. Having the trunion bearings fail makes for a very very long and frustrating day. The entire weight of the vehicle sits on those, and its also the pivot point for the wheel. Break those, and you aren't going anywhere fast. These don't replace the spindle bushing, but I'm not sure if that is what Brody was talking about. He probably went to bed already, but he gets on super early in the morning (like 4am) most days so you'll have his response when you wake up.

JH

[foxtrot]

would it probably be good to get the knuckle stud kit at the same time?

[Haku]

Which kind? There are a couple different ones I know of. The main kind replaces the bolts that hold the spindle on with studs and nuts. IMHO its a "nice to have but not necessary" kind of thing. You have to bolt through like 8 layers of stuff when you put those bolts on, so its nice to have the studs there already. Its completely doable without them though.

The other stud kit you can do is the ARP or hardened steering arm studs. Once you start adding lockers and hydro assist stuff, its more common to shear those studs off. Not the greatest thing to have happen. The ARP hardened ones pretty much solve the issue. You can also do like I did and add a 5th stud. Have a look in my thread "extreme build" thread for a writeup. For what you have right now, I think you'd be fine with the stock ones though. The ARP are $85 from Front Range Offroad, so they aren't cheap. Brody said we might be able to find something similar at a fastener place for cheaper, but not sure.

All that stuff is something to think about, but if you can't afford it right now its not necessary. Two mods to think about doing that are cheaper are the rock rings and the Longfield "lifetime wiper seals". $20 for the Rock Rings and $35 for the Wiper Seals. Both are much beefier and a worth upgrade.

Low Range Offroad is a great one stop place to get a bunch of different brands of stuff at the same time. They are the only place I have seen that carries Marlin, Longfield, and Trail Gear at the same time. Pretty cool. Here is a link to their "axles" page....

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.php/yotamain/4runner/axles.html?p=1

They tend to stock stuff, and are in Utah so it gets here a bit quicker too. Sean, the owner, has always treated me well and they have good deals.

JH

[Brody]

Brody said we might be able to find something similar at a fastener place for cheaper, but not sure.JH

AAA Metric in Downtown Denver 17th and Larimer. Almost all of the other hub bolt uprades (to 12.8 Metric) can be purchased at almost any ACE Hardware store for about $1.50 or less each. Quite a bit cheaper than the $70 kit for the same BS. Most ACE store carry metric studs, too, for about $1.00 each. Save some money and make a trip down there.

[foxtrot]

oh for sure, that is a lot cheaper than the kit. I will be making a trip to ace when I do my rebuild. thanks brody!

[foxtrot]

anyone know the thread pitch of the knuckle studs? I found out mine already has them, but one of them is sheared off.

[Haku]

They are m10 1.25 thread pitch, according to a dude on Pirate. You are talking about the spindle stud kit right? You have to differentiate between them since there are 3 different kinds.

Just an FYI, the ARP steering arm studs are significantly harder and stronger then a 12.8 rated stud you'll get from AAA Metric. They are made of Chromoly steel and rated at nearly twice the breaking strength. Grade 12.8 Metric studs are 1220 MegaPascals, which is somewhere around 150,000 psi tensile strength. The ARP Studs are rated to 220,000 PSI in their most recent version (started out being 190k psi). Specially made for Front Range by ARP, hence the large price diffrence (steering studs are $89 and hub studs are $69). I figured there was a reason for that, and found out why.

JH

[foxtrot]

I think I will eventually get the ARB kit, but for now, I am more just looking for a temp replacement for the one that is missing. I'll just get one at ace for now until I can afford the ARB :redface:. thanks Josh :thunb:

[Haku]

Which stud did you break? One of the steering ones arm ones?

Like I said, you have to differentiate between them, since there are 3 different ones on the knuckle that are completely different.

JH

[foxtrot]

it's one of the four steering arm i think. right behind the rotor

[Haku]

So its one of these....

http://29iocw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p4_nid5AobYM2D1eJiRHuvUrEpNhHEzcKrMi9nMPZfMY-wqp9pJ6Hs5S3oAwimp_dz9MWziyB2_yogJyRfyR3jlchpIFoEZ 7v/13.jpg

not one a stud put into one of these holes...

http://29iocw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pvEUENDu9IbeBDOQRRJa06AwEzOJvUIYIGaQyXYFl3RoSMM3 YVQpzP_Dux4mL-7Nq-eXNrsTH4sJnd-vhG3gXlO1MZ44e0cMJ/14.jpg

The first are the steering arm ones (which all knuckles have), and the second would be there if the PO had upgraded to the spindle stud kit. If its the ones in the first picture, then make super sure that they are good quality studs. Not sure you'll be able to find that one at Ace, might have to go to a more specialist fastener type place like that AAA Metric place Brody talked about.

JH

[foxtrot]

yes, it is the one in the first picture. one of them is just missing. anyone know of a specialty store in the springs?

[Haku]

Oh, and the size I gave you earlier was the ones for the second picture not the first. I believe that the steering arm studs are m12x1.5 for the part that goes down into the knuckle. Toyota, in their infinite wisdom, made them different thread pitches on the top then the bottom, so its m12x1.25 thread pitch on the part that sticks out.

I think you might be better off trying to find a solid axled rig at a Junkyard and getting a whole knuckle, or maybe finding someone with a spare knuckle that would let you have one of the studs. I have a spare knuckle up here, but its a long drive for a single stud.

JH

[Volcom]

I've got a spare steering knuckle stud if you want one. I kept all my studs when I upgraded to ARP's (not ARB's :D). If you want one, PM me your address and I'll throw one in the mail. Like JH said, 12.8 metric is an OK upgrade but APR's are the way to go once to get to big tires and hydro assist steering. I've actually broken an ARP after letting the knuckle studs get loose on Blanca last year. That's way I suggest you checking those knuckle stud nuts after every trip.

Let me know about those knuckle studs.

[foxtrot]

that would be awesome, I'll pm you my addy :D

[foxtrot]

got some work done today. got my new air compressor installed, and got all of my wiring cleaned up. also removed to CB wire/antennas because I am going to re-locate them to the roof for better reception. the wire was very old and brittle, so time for a replacement. At my new house, I didn't have a place for my little 4 drawer too chest on wheels. My friend suggested to take the wheels off and mount it in the back of the yota for a trail tool box. It fit perfectly in there and will hold all the tools and parts I need. also got about 1000 sunflower seeds cleaned out from an incident on the anniv. run :erm: anyone know a good place in the springs to get cb stuff?

[foxtrot]

also did a bit of testing how the new toolbox would stay on steep hills:

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/0_IMAG0008.jpg

it was pretty steep lol. ebrake would not hold it :rolleyes:

[Mporter]

Not in the springs. But Radio Service Center is where I get all my stuff.

[foxtrot]

got the new CB antennas mounted today, the mount is right above the drivers and passengers door. got both antennas, mounts and a dual cable for 50 bucks at the truck stop down in fountain :thunb: also got the air system buttoned up and tested it out.. works good. went down and got an allignment, oil change, and tires rotated. I love payday :woot:

[Brody]

I've actually broken an ARP after letting the knuckle studs get loose on Blanca last year. That's way I suggest you checking those knuckle stud nuts after every trip. Let me know about those knuckle studs.

Hey Brad

Whatever you do with the knuckle studs (and the ARPs are certainly the way to go if the $$ are there), when you get them torqued down to the right specs, take some finger nail polish or a good visibility paint (white/silver/yellow) and mark a line across the top of the knuckle stud and nut. That way you can just look over the top of the tire to see if they have gotten loose or not. Still a good idea to check them every time you do a routine tightening of everything you can get a wrench on. I do this routinely about every two weeks and do it more often during good weather, especially before each wheeling trip. It is also a good idea to simply check everything under the rig visually when you do this: see what is rubbing, bushings getting worn, u joints wearing, cracks in welds, belts or hoses getting worn or cracked, etc, etc....and etc. Trail repairs usually suck wind for everyone involved. The more you can do to prevent them, the better off you are going to be...

[scout man]

also got the air system buttoned up and tested it out.. works good.

Good! Hope it works out for you! You running any air tanks in that too, or just straight out of the compressor?

[Chris]

FWIW, I didn't find any better performance using tanks on mine so eliminated them.

[foxtrot]

yep, no tanks for me, I figured if I eventually ran air tools on the trail, then I will do a tank, but for now it's just straight air commpressor. any good suggestions for a good tire will system. like one with a gauge inline and a filler that clips on the stem? I've checked sears, checkers, 4 wheel parts and no one has one. I even tried to make my own but no one had an inline gauge

[Chris]

Harbor Freight has the one I use, clips to the stem and had a gauge. Unfortunately it shows the system pressure rather than tire pressure but it beats holding the hose on.

[scout man]

yea, I didnt find much difference running that pump with a tank either. Actually, seemed like it took longer to wait for the tanks to fill so you could use it. With my current setup that tanks are GREAT though. Brad - I am not sure you would ever be able to run air tools with that pump. It just doesnt put the air out fast enough, and even with a 5 gallon tank (what I ran with it), you only really have a few seconds of tool use before it needs to recharge again. With my York now I have finally reached the point where air tools begin to be functional enough.

I have a Husky tire inflator that does what you describe. It clips on, although better to some valve stems than others, has a gauge (although it is highly innacurate on the one I have), and a trigger you have to pull to inflate. Not ideal, but better than some I have seen. The fact that my gauge is off may just be a fluke. It shows the system pressure while inflating, but when you let go of the trigger it shows the tire pressure, but mine is off by about 10 psi. i would think you could throw a rubber band around the trigger if you were wanting to walk away. It also has a button to push to let air out of the tire if you over inflate, or forgot to bring a better way to deflate your tires. Not the best tool ever, but I still use it simply because I have yet to find anything better. Very smart concept, just not the best application of the ideas.

Hope you like that compressor!

[Chris]

Any setup will show the system pressure, just he nature of the compressor filling tires. Mine doesn't have the trigger so I just connect it to fill and disconnect to move on to the next, beats holding a trigger. Mine puts out 120 psi, not going to power any tools with that.

[Volcom]

Whatever you do with the knuckle studs (and the ARPs are certainly the way to go if the $$ are there), when you get them torqued down to the right specs, take some finger nail polish or a good visibility paint (white/silver/yellow) and mark a line across the top of the knuckle stud and nut. That way you can just look over the top of the tire to see if they have gotten loose or not.

Most of the time, it's not the nut backing off of the knuckle stud. It's either the knuckle stud backing itself out of the knuckle (make sure you degrease very good and red locktite the bottom portion of the knuckle stud into the top of the knuckle) or the knuckle stud slightly stretching (that's why the ARP's are better than the stockers, they don't stretch as easy). Putting a paint line across the top of the nut won't show them being loose.

I highly suggest checking them after EVERY run. I pretty much wheel with a 17mm socket & wrench in the glovebox and it gets broken out after every wheeling trip. There are two things that I don't mess around with on a rig, steering & brakes. You can survive a tire blowout, leaf spring snapping, transmission failure, t-case failure, etc........... but the chances of survival when something in your steering or brakes goes out is not very good.

[Brody]

Most of the time, it's not the nut backing off of the knuckle stud. It's either the knuckle stud backing itself out of the knuckle (make sure you degrease very good and red locktite the bottom portion of the knuckle stud into the top of the knuckle) or the knuckle stud slightly stretching (that's why the ARP's are better than the stockers, they don't stretch as easy). Putting a paint line across the top of the nut won't show them being loose.

I highly suggest checking them after EVERY run. I pretty much wheel with a 17mm socket & wrench in the glovebox and it gets broken out after every wheeling trip. There are two things that I don't mess around with on a rig, steering & brakes. You can survive a tire blowout, leaf spring snapping, transmission failure, t-case failure, etc........... but the chances of survival when something in your steering or brakes goes out is not very good.

Thanks Aaron! That cannot be mentioned often enough!

Thanks for mentioning the Loc Tite. I installed my ARP studs with the highest strength Loc Tite I can get and my visual mark actually extends down onto the knuckle arm itself, showing if anything gets loose. Does this keep me from checking them for tightness? No way. They get retightened same same as everything else, either after a run or before a run.

This is something that EVERYONE who wheels should do. If you haven't spent some really fun time doing trail repairs (Aaron for sure has) and, even better, repairing a bud's rig due to the fact that 'periodic maintenance' isn't in his vocabulary, then you don't know what you have been missing. This is very basic, very cheap, very simple peace of mind maintenance, too. Tightening everything on your rig you can easily reach takes roughly 20-30 minutes. Aaron, like myself, I would be willing to bet, will also take the time while he is under his rig to visually check for anything out of place: new wear marks, stuff rubbing where it wasn't before, cracks in welds, etc, etc, etc. If you do not take the time to do this, then what you miss is going to bite you on the ass big time at some point, usually when you aren't going to want it to. If you are lucky, you won't get hurt. If you aren't so lucky, you won't be so fortunate.

Case in point from someone who also takes the time to inspect his rig: Todd (WYota). When he was over here yesterday and we were installing Addicted Off Road's sweet bumper on the front of his rig, he mentioned brake line wear he had noticed when looking at the under carriage. Minor? For sure. A slight tap with a hammer and sleeving the hose with some tubing at the wear area to provide additional protection will straighten it out. BUT....if he hadn't seen this and it went on, a weakness could very well have developed in the wear area on the line resulting in a catastrophic brake failure down the road. Front driver's side brake line, too. One almost certain to drain ALL the brake fluid out in a heartbeat. Preventative maintenance will save your ass as well as anyone who happens to be riding with you.

Think about it: Every time you go wheeling for a day, you are easily doubling the amount of wear and tear on your rig than you would get with regular highway miles. Harder trails even more so. And I am not even talking about all the incessant vibration form washboard roads or rocks...4x4 rigs do not self maintain or repair themselves overnight night.....

This is, to me, much like checking my tie in knot when I climb. I have tied the exact same tie in knot for over 40 years, the exact same way, with a safety. When I am done with my tie in, I have gone through the knot two times and it is nice, tight, and compact. I have tied this same knot probably a million times. Before I leave the ground, do I do a visual inspection on the knot? You bet your ass...

[foxtrot]

ordered an aussie locker for the rear today, woo :jiggy::jiggy:

[foxtrot]

ok, installing the aussie locker, I'm not very good with gearin and everything so I have a couple questions that I could not find the answer to.

first:
Once I took the third member apart, I saw this:
http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/IMAG0044.jpg
Do I need to replace this? my guess is yes, but I have 5,29 gears so can this piece be the stock one, or does it have to correspond with the 5.29 gears?

second question:
I have the gears out and I don't know where to go from here. no directions I looked at were very clear to me. what do I take apart and what goes where?

[Haku]

Yep....definitely needs to be replaced. How does the ring gear look? I'd be surprised if it didn't have damage too. You do indeed need to match the 5.29 pinion to the 5.29 ring gear (they are a set). I'll leave that to the more experienced guys on here to say whether just purchasing another pinion is ok, or whether you need to get a whole another ring and pinion set. Either way, you'll need it setup, as a new setup won't be just something you can bolt in and have it work (unless you are super lucky).

Josh

[foxtrot]

how much do you think a set would cost?

[Haku]

Have a search around for Toyota Ring and Pinion gears, but unless you can find a used set (those are the most common gears to swap into a Toyota axle, but people tend to use them to destruction rather then sell them) its gonna be around $175-200 for a ring and pinion set. If I was buying new, I would also consider sending them off to get cryo treated, as that really ups the strength. Cost for that is $45 plus shipping from Longfield. Not great to hear, but it could have been worse and shredded a bunch of other stuff too.

[foxtrot]

So, since I don't know what I'm doing, I'm kind of thinking that I'll just buy an R&P set and have someone set it all up. anyone up for it? I know someone I can take it to for 42 an hour, but I would prefer to keep it in the family

[Haku]

I would get with Brody and see if he would be willing to help. Drop out 3rd's are much easier to work with then a Dana style axle where you have to do it all inside the housing, but its still worth having someone there to help you with it. I imagine Volcom has done a few in his time too, and he lives closer to you. Its all about making sure the pinion hits the gear in the right place, and then making sure the preload rings (the little rings with holes in them) are set correctly. I haven't done it, otherwise I would offer to do it for you.

[Mporter]

Might also talk to Scotty at AddictedOffroad. Kinda far from you, but I know he quoted me on it at one point and it seemed like a decent price.

[Volcom]

I imagine Volcom has done a few in his time too, and he lives closer to you

Out of all the work I've done to my 4Runner, I've never set my own gears. Sorry. I had a buddy of mine build my 2 diffs. I'd suggest buying a new set of 5.29's & master install kit rather than trying to buy just a pinion.

X2 on Scotty at Addicted. He's built quite a few. Maybe you can find a stock 4.10 third and install it for now. You then could take your blown up diff up north and have it built (just don't put it in 4wd). You then could swap third's after getting it rebuilt with 5.29's. Just an idea?

[4Runner3Wheeler]

That's basically what I'm rolling. Simply get the reinforcement gussets and knuckle reinforcements from somewhere like TGear and weld them on or have them welded on. It's also a good time to get the heavy duty 3rd member armor at this time and armor it up! I don't have any photos of mine up close at the moment...sorry.

[4Runner3Wheeler]

Scotty does quality work. If you'd like to check some of his handy work, you're more than welcome to swing by.


Might also talk to Scotty at AddictedOffroad. Kinda far from you, but I know he quoted me on it at one point and it seemed like a decent price.

[Brody]

I would also consider sending them off to get cryo treated, as that really ups the strength. Cost for that is $45 plus shipping from Longfield. Not great to hear, but it could have been worse and shredded a bunch of other stuff too.

Yeah...maybe and then maybe not. I did this with my last set and they didn't last any longer than the other gear sets that I have had in that weren't cyro'd. The last set I put in, I didn't bother with this as 1) I didn't have the money and 2), I didn't feel like I got any extra wear, tear and strength out of them. Longfield did these for me, too.

Happy to help with armor and gusetting if you are up in my area. The creeper gussets are probably a good thing, but certainly not high priority, The diff armor as well as the top axle gusset is.

[foxtrot]

well after buyin the R&P and install kit, and throwing some money for installing it, I'm gonna br a little broke lol, I already have the axle gusset for ontop of the axle, just gotta weld it on. I have a 90 amp rod welder, but it takes 1/32nd rods which i can't find anywhere :/

[Brody]

well after buyin the R&P and install kit, and throwing some money for installing it, I'm gonna br a little broke lol, I already have the axle gusset for ontop of the axle, just gotta weld it on. I have a 90 amp rod welder, but it takes 1/32nd rods which i can't find anywhere :/

Looking for the rod for ya. I'll let you know. The Trail Gear axle armor is about the cheapest you can go and is certainly stout enough. I have beaten mine to death and they are still holding up fine. The creeper gusset, like I said, are a nice addition as they also reinforce the steering bump stops.

These are actually relatively easy to make, but most people just buy them as they are cheaper to buy than to make, but if you are short on bucks and long on time, it may be the way to go.

For the steering bump reinforcement, there are a couple of ways to do this. You can find some steel tube that just fits inside and weld a piece inside the bump stop or just cut some triangles of 3/16" or 1/4" steel and weld them on top and bottom....or do both.

I think you will find home made creepers in this build thread:

http://www.yotatech.com/f88/fillsrunner4-3-4cralwer-pic-heavy-132060/

[foxtrot]

woo, new parts :D

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/IMAG0069.jpg

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae90/btencer/IMAG0070.jpg

[Volcom]

Throw the crush sleeve away and order you a solid pinion spacer!
http://www.marlincrawler.com/differential/parts/solid-pinion-spacer-kit

[Brody]

Throw the crush sleeve away and order you a solid pinion spacer!
http://www.marlincrawler.com/differential/parts/solid-pinion-spacer-kit

X2. The crush sleeve is a waste and the solid one is going to suite your needs a lot better.

[foxtrot]

dont have time :( im getting it setup tomorrow

[Brody]

dont have time :( im getting it setup tomorrow

Your aren't going to lose anything with the crush sleeve, so not to worry. The other sleeve is just a better upgrade.

Noticed that you are going to go on the Saran Wrap, etc run tomorrow. Watch the suggestions on the break in period for the gears(IE: driving for 20 minutes, letting the cool off, driving for 20 minutes, cooling, etc, then changing the oil out at 500 miles or so) as improper break in and getting the gears too hot initially has been the cause of many a premature gear failure. Don't have to go over board with this, but don't treat them as if they don't need some break in. For instance: Drive to the meet place early and let the gears cool off. Drive to the trail head and let the gears cool off. Anyway, you get my drift.

[foxtrot]

so... burned out the clutch on eagle rock. trying to decide what to go with. stock replacement is 100 bucks, marlin replacement is 200. 1200, 1600 1900 or 2100 lbs?

[Brody]

Talk to Marlin. Even if you don't buy the clutch from them, they will make a good suggestion. LCI also sell clutches as another source, as does Underdog Racing Development.

Todd (WYota) just put a clutch and a 10 pound over flywheel in his rig with the 2.7L and is very happy with that. You might PM him to see what he put in. I have the TRD in mine and had a Center Force before I swapped in the 3.4L. Both of these are good, but pricey clutches.

Andrew put a stock replacement clutch in his 4 Runner that he got with the FR wholesale plus price at Stevinson West Toyota. Stock cluthches work fine, too.

[Chris]

Todd didn't seem real happy with his on MSV!

[Volcom]

I put a cheap Exedy clutch in mine. Works great off-road since I've got all the low range gearing. I never have to worry about slipping a clutch. If you've got the $$$, you can't go wrong with a 1600lb Marlin clutch! Will it be ready for the Jambo??

[foxtrot]

oh, it wil be ready for the jambo lol. no doubt about it. I'm even selling my dirt bike to be ready :thunb:

[TC]

I like my Marlin clutch - I went with the standard, it holds fine even in compound low, but feels kinda soft. Wish I had gone with one of the higher ones.

Note the Marlin clutches are a SECO pressure plate and AISIN disc - pretty much factory components.

If you 'wheel a lot, I would recommend a heavier flywheel if you have a few extra bucks.

[foxtrot]

I guess it's time for an update. I ended up ordering the marlin 1600 lb clutch. Dan (wakkjob) is helping me put it in and get a lot of other not needed things off of the truck. removed all of the A/C components, removed heater lines to the rear heater, removed the old alarm system that I didn't even know was there, put notches in the door hinges to make removing them easier, and fix all of the ghetto rigged and dumb wiring in the truck. We got the tranny bolted back up today with the new clutch in. all thats left is to finish cleaning up all the BS wiring. :D

[Volcom]

I guess it's time for an update. I ended up ordering the marlin 1600 lb clutch. Dan (wakkjob) is helping me put it in and get a lot of other not needed things off of the truck. removed all of the A/C components, removed heater lines to the rear heater, removed the old alarm system that I didn't even know was there, put notches in the door hinges to make removing them easier, and fix all of the ghetto rigged and dumb wiring in the truck. We got the tranny bolted back up today with the new clutch in. all thats left is to finish cleaning up all the BS wiring. :D

Good to hear! Glad your getting it ready to run for next week. What are your plans for the Jambo? When are you leaving? What trails were you going to try & run?

What are your plans with the rear heater? Mine never came with rear heat and I was kinda thinking of adding it for my kids in the backseat.

Did you still need those extra knuckle studs? I never popped them back in the mail, sorry.

[foxtrot]

I plan on leaving friday morning sometime. I will have to pack friday morning then head up. I plan on running holy cross, wheeler lake, and chinaman gultch. you can have the rear heater/lines if you would like. I will look and see what all would be needed to put it in to yours. I'll bring it with me to the jambo so you can pick it up. I really just need one knuckle stud setup. only one of mine is missing. you can bring it to the jambo if you want :cool:

[Volcom]

We're running Holy Cross on Friday. We'll be at the trailhead at 9am. I'd suggest trying to make the HC run on Friday. I don't know if anybody else is going to run HC Sat or Sun. It will be an easy morning for you on Friday to make it to the HC trailhead by 9 but well worth it. It's going to be one hell of a day.

[foxtrot]

are you planning on setting up camp first? how far away is HC from camp

[Volcom]

are you planning on setting up camp first? how far away is HC from camp

I'm going to be leaving Pueblo @ 8:30pm on Thursday night. I'll be rolling into camp @ 11pm late Thursday. The BV camp is an hour away from Holy Cross. Most people end up coming on Thursday night and driving up to HC Friday morning or coming up early Friday and meeting us at the trailhead at 9. There's enough trucks & trailers that people can unload their camping gear into a tow rig so they don't have to wheel with a loaded rig on Friday.

[wakkjobb]

For the rear heater to work you'll need a different heater control valve and a few new hoses... it's all bolt-on stuff. Also wiring for the blower motor and maybe a different console?

>>Dan

[foxtrot]

how easy is it to find the campsite at 3 am?will you be at the BV campsite already by then volcom? I'll look for your runner. what type of tow rig do you have

[foxtrot]

also, I'm pretty sure I know where it is. you take a left at the end of hwy 24, go around the big curve with the field on the right. then you come to a dirt road and take a right. get to a big area surrounded by trees? is this the campsite?

[Volcom]

also, I'm pretty sure I know where it is. you take a left at the end of hwy 24, go around the big curve with the field on the right. then you come to a dirt road and take a right. get to a big area surrounded by trees? is this the campsite?

Here's the directions from CO Springs to the campsite
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Colorado+Springs,+CO&daddr=Co+Rd+376%2FLenhardy+Cutoff&geocode=%3BFYjuUAIdSbWt-Q&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=38.85565,-106.05536&sspn=0.024797,0.038581&ie=UTF8&ll=38.888895,-105.487976&spn=0.793138,1.234589&t=h&z=10

You can zoom in on the map if need be.

I'll be driving an 04 Dodge 2500 HD (Maroon & Silver 2 tone) with a 20 ft trailer and my 4Runner on 40's parked on it.

[foxtrot]

so my new project is to replace the rear shackles with some new real ones. they are just two pieces of steel on each side right now. From bolt hole to bolt hole, it measures about 10 inches tall. my question is, the tallest I can find is 6 inches from marlin, what else can I add/do to make up the other 4 inches? I don;t want my ride height to go down at all since it already sags in the rear. I have chevy 63 inch springs in there also.

[foxtrot]

so, I have about 250 to spend on the runner, and can't decide what to get. any suggestions?

[Haku]

hmmm....... truss the front axle and do breathers for it if you haven't already. I think there are aussie/lockright style lockers for that much too.

Honestly, if you jump on it, Trail-Gear has a special going on their 4.7 t-case gears for $249 too (ends Oct. 1). Can't remember what you have as far as transfercase stuff, but that is about the best $250 you could spend if you don't have them already.

A few other ideas are tube doors from 4xinnovations for $189 ( http://4xinnovations.com/p-TD01.html ), a budget Hydro Assist setup from Surplus Center (check out the Pirate4x4 Toyota FAQ for details) for $120-200, or just doing general maintenance and changing fluids and such. I'm sure there are other things you could do for that much too, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

[Volcom]

4.7 gears are nice. Aussie locker for the front axle. Smittbilt xrc8000 winch.

Sent from my TI-82 using Tapatalk

[Brody]

T Case gears. It is gonna start snowing soon, so the tube doors can wait. Besides, you can modify Chevy S 10 tire carriers to work as tube doors for your rig and you can get these for about $10 each at a junk yard. Take a look at the tube doors on my heap in the album pictures: Chevy S 10 tire carriers...at $10 each. Junkyards have so many of the damn things they don't know what to do with them.

[foxtrot]

ok, so decided to go with a new windshield and shackle kit from marlin crawler to replace my ghetto shackles. it's so weird being able to see while driving now lol, the shackle kit dropped my truck down quite a bit so I might go with a double shackle setup, or lift blocks. bit I canno decide. will lift blocks make the suspension any stiffer/alter it in any other way but lifting?

[Haku]

How'd the windshield install go? I hear its a bit of a pain in the butt to install a new one and have it still look decent on our trucks. Looks like yours might have the universal trim already done to it instead of the crappy metal trim that falls off and collects rust. Definitely on my list of things to do.

As for lift blocks, they won't make your rig stiffer or flex any better or worse, but axle wrap will almost certainly get worse. It puts a lot more twisting force on the springs, and you'll probably go through leaf springs faster because of it. My rig has them on the rear axle, and I would love to get rid of them. Its a bit of a challenge for me, since its a harder fix to lower my front end without loosing a bunch of uptravel on the suspension. Its definitely a band aid fix but as long as you don't go too big on them it should work allright. If you can get the lift back any other way, I would do that first though. Adding a leaf, finding some taller springs, something like that.

Double shackles are a touchy subject. Most people will tell you to stay away from them. My only experience with them so far was on my Samurai, and they did awesome. Some say that they unload too easily and make for sketchy situations on steep terrain. I know some people pin the upper shackle so it doesn't move, which gets around that problem. They will lift it a bit, but not in a huge way. You'll get more droop with them, but its not as ideal as true spring movement since it doesn't provide as much traction due to there being no weight beyond the axle itself on the drooping axle. You will probably have to move your shackle mount of you go with those though, so keep that in mind.

[foxtrot]

well, with using the 63" chevys, my stock shackle mounts are still there :D, thats what made me want to do the double. I may look for some new chevy springs that aren't so worn out and lost a lot of arch. do they make 63" chevys with a lift? maybe 2-3" would be a good investment.

[Haku]

I am sure they do, but they might be hard to find. That is what I have on mine too, and it seems to be the reason the PO used lift blocks back there. You could try adding a leaf or two as well. Is the drop in height equal front and rear? If so, I would say that is almost more desirable. I know I want my rig to be lower then it is now, mostly because I feel like its too high right now and feels too tippy when doing off camber. As long as you still flex well and tire clearance isn't a huge issue, I say stick with what you have.

[foxtrot]

ya thats the only thing. the front did not change, but the back dropped. It just looks stupid, and I'm not sure if it is going to rub. I'm going out this weekedn hopefully to test it. if i can lower the front, and do some trimming it will be good. the only thing is the front alreadt rubs on the firewall, and that is a pita to cut and shape

[foxtrot]

oh, and I need a front windshield sticker for the front range. anyone have any? I had the windsield installed, only 150 from this company I used. it has the metal trim, and i was missing a couple pieces that the guy seemed to have in his bucket-o-pparts that he just gav me. so now it is complete and none of it is rusted.yay

[Robert B]

i probly need to get some stickers now too lol but yay you can see now

[Chris]

PM Aaron for stickers ;)

[Volcom]

if i can lower the front, and do some trimming it will be good

That's what I would do. It will make your rig feel much better on the trail!

One of my winter projects is to lower mine. I'd like to loose 1-2". I plan on cutting down the shackles, maybe swapping to RUF's instead of my 4" TG's in the front and possibly frenching the rear hangers.

[Brody]

well, with using the 63" chevys, my stock shackle mounts are still there , thats what made me want to do the double. I may look for some new chevy springs that aren't so worn out and lost a lot of arch. do they make 63" chevys with a lift? maybe 2-3" would be a good investment.

What Josh said pretty much as far as blocks/axle rap goes, but using the 63 Chevy springs in the rear of a Yota, it is pretty common to use either a 2-3" spacer....which will increase axle rap, BUT...If you have a set of the Chevy springs that came with the heavy duty bottom overload leaf, you can install some blocks (steel, or make your own out of 1/4" 2x2 or 2x3 , drill a 9/16" center hole and weld the on top of the existing ones) and use a grinder to cut the overload an inch or 2 behind the spring perch, leaving the front part of the overload. The front parts acts as an anti wrap very well.

I used this on my heap which is pushing way more hp than yours and is also heavier. I took off the anti wrap bar I had on there with the Alcans, which I needed, when I did what I just described with the Chevys, as I no longer needed it. The Chevy springs were one of the best purchases I have made and have out performed the $500++ set of Alcans for a little over 1/5 of the cost.

[foxtrot]

I currently have the overload leaf, i think. That is the one at the bottom that is a lot thickker than the rest right? so what am I welding the block to? the leaf or the spring perch?the way I'm understanding it is cut the back of the overload leaf off leaving about 2-3 inches behind the perch, and weld the block to the bottom of the overload?

[Brody]

OK...The Chevy overload leaf is the bottom most short one that is 1/2" thick or a little more in the center. If you have a total of 4 leaves, then you probably have the overload. What you want to do is to cut off the backside of the overload, leaving the front portion, about 2-4" (I don't think I measured mine too closely. It was more where the grinder and cut off worked the best) behind the spring perches and back of the axle. For the blocks, I would suggest using 1/4" 2x2" square or 1/4" 2x3" rectangular stock and welding them directly to the top of the existing spring perches on the axles. This is welding mild steel to mild steel (a good thing) vs welding mild steel to spring steel ( a bad thing...and pretty damn hard to do). You can either weld them along both sides, or go for a little more insurance like I did, and weld a plate that connects both the new spacer block, the existing axle spring perch and the axle, making it pretty much a single unit. This pretty much eliminates the plates shifting or blowing out.

Here are some pictures to help clarify things for ya. Note that the axle gussets on top of the axle cover up the mating surface on the inside, but the blocks were welded along the insides to the existing spring perches, then welded again to the axle gussets.

Happy to answer any other questions if you have any. Hardest part was actually finding a sharp 9/16" for the center pin hole. I actually think I ended up using the plasma cutter (going for some real precision here...) to take the hole from 1/2 to 9/16.

[foxtrot]

I have about 5 leaves on mine. and mine look thinner than yours do. I'll take a picture of mine tomorrow and throw it on here.

[foxtrot]

ok everyone... descion time. I am going to have some extra money here soon, and I am having trouble deciding what to get. I either want to get a front locker, or 4.7 gears for the t-case. my biggest question with the 4.7's is will i NEED to upgrade to the chromoly axles? I know i don't need to, but I'm just wondering am I just going to get a broken axle the first difficult run? i need opinions!

[Haku]

I personally would go with the lower gears after seeing you have to really give it some throttle and slipping the clutch a lot to get over stuff. Having the lower gears will help a ton with that. Locker will too, but the gears are a good first step.

With the front open, much of the stress to the axles will be lessened, so having the lower gears shouldn't be a huge deal. I suspect that it would actually be nicer on the axles since you wouldn't be having to give it so much throttle through stuff and be able to crawl instead. So I think you are safe using the stock axle shafts until you get a locker installed. I would definitely try and save up for both and upgrade at the same time, or get the axle shafts first and then a locker. I think you'll dig the 4.7 gears though, and that will set you up nicely for dual cases in the future too.

If you are really worried about it, I have an extra set of spare front axle shafts I would sell you for $50. They are ones I bought before upgrading to longfields, and I have the spare shafts that came stock in my axles. I think having two sets of spare axles is a bit overkill, so I'd be happy to pass them on. Its a bit of a pain in the ass for a trail fix, but better then being stranded. Luck favors the prepared right?

[foxtrot]

ya, that makes sense that it would be less stress. thanks for the advice Josh. and I'll take the axle shafts also. I've been looking for a set to carry around with me just in case.

so the next question is... should I go with getting just the gears and install myself, or buying the whole setup? installing the gears does not look too hard to do, as long as you keep it organized, and much cheaper. I can probably get the gears for around 300 vs. 625 for the complete unit.

[foxtrot]

oh, and I think we came up with a name for the runner. the "roadrunner" as my horn sounds just like it :)

[Haku]

ya, that makes sense that it would be less stress. thanks for the advice Josh. and I'll take the axle shafts also. I've been looking for a set to carry around with me just in case.

so the next question is... should I go with getting just the gears and install myself, or buying the whole setup? installing the gears does not look too hard to do, as long as you keep it organized, and much cheaper. I can probably get the gears for around 300 vs. 625 for the complete unit.

I'd get the gears alone and install them yourself. I did it myself over the summer, and its not hard at all. Having a good set of c-clip pliers is a plus, and a way to clearance the inside of the case and a few other parts is useful too. I used a sanding drum and a 4.5" angle grinder and it was easy. Took me about 1.5-2 hours from cracking the case to having it together again. If you want to bring it up to install them, then I would be happy help. Getting the t-case off the rig is a harder job then installing the gears in the case. Marlin has very detailed and well written installation instructions for it if you want to have a look.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/guide/4701-gear-install

For what its worth, I would get the Marlin ones even though they are more spendy. The total spline thing, plus better oiling characteristics are clearly worth it to me over the cheaper Trail Gear ones. $100 at the end of the day isn't a huge deal, especially when you are thinking about having one built for you. Its up to you though. If you get them from Trail Gear, definitely order through Scotty at Addicted Offroad.

[Brody]

Ditto what Josh said on the T case. There is only one really big C clip that is hard to get off. Everything else is easily done with regular hand tools. There are no shims or weird gear lash things to set up. The C clip has to have a big mutha C clip pliers to remove, but you can put it back in without them. If you don't want to buy a big C clip pliers, pretty much any 4x shop or auto place will take it off for you if you bring it in to them.

And ditto on the extra $$ for the better oiling set up with the Marlin. Getting oil between the cases has been an on going problem and Marlin seems to have solved it. Go with the bigger output shaft, too as this will now be a weak point and a trail stopper if it breaks.

[Haku]

Ditto what Josh said on the T case. There is only one really big C clip that is hard to get off. Everything else is easily done with regular hand tools. There are no shims or weird gear lash things to set up. The C clip has to have a big mutha C clip pliers to remove, but you can put it back in without them. If you don't want to buy a big C clip pliers, pretty much any 4x shop or auto place will take it off for you if you bring it in to them.

And ditto on the extra $$ for the better oiling set up with the Marlin. Getting oil between the cases has been an on going problem and Marlin seems to have solved it. Go with the bigger output shaft, too as this will now be a weak point and a trail stopper if it breaks.

The "monster" snap ring you are thinking about is the one on the Dual Case adapter and holds the input/output coupler, so in this case you shouldn't have to worry about it. For this, just a nice set of c-clip pliers is nice, since there are at least 4 of them on there. Marlin sells both the c-clip tool and the snap ring tool for doing these, and if the c-clip pliers I got are any indication, then snap ring pliers will be a top notch well built tool and neither is very expensive.

I agree about the beefier input and output shafts if you can afford it. FWIW, stay away from the Longfield one since its having some teething issues of late.....

An unused shaft that was only installed and only cycled by hand...
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/iliketosk8111/P1020750.jpg

There are a few things with them that are wrong, and can be read about here.... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=939594. I'll mention that Bobby Longfield has been nothing but helpful about fixing things and remedying any issues people have had, but I personally would wait to spend money on this product till all the issues are gone for a while. The Marlin one doesn't have the same issues, so that is how I would go. Adding these will double the price, but it seriously beefs the the case up. I don't think you will NEED either of them, since they seem to hold up fine to the sub 39" tires and people who aren't the "hammer down to get up stuff types".

Let us know how it goes and what you decide to do.

[Brody]

Ooops....I got the impression he was doing dual cases. That's the only place that big C clip is.

[foxtrot]

just filed my taxes, looks like someone is going to be buying some 4.7's and a new locker in 8-16 days :jiggy:

[Haku]

Sweet, I'm jealous (not of the gears....but the refund) as this will be my first year owing taxes rather then getting a refund. Let us know if you need any help.

Josh

[foxtrot]

ya, I got one only because of my school lol. the government feels bad when you go to school full time and work full time :) We just installed the 4.7's in my girlfriends dads transfer case and it went flawlessly. not nearly as hard as I thought it would be. one question is, do you think it is worth getting the dual shifter? if i upgrade in the future to it, I have to take the case back out and remove the interlock pin (PITA). but it just seems like more of a convience than an improvement

[Haku]

I personally don't see the need for a Dual Shifter on a Toyota case. With some of the Dana cases it allows you to choose between front, rear and Four wheel drive. All it does in a Toyota case is allows you to split hi and low range from RWD and 4WD selection. All that adds to the pot is 2 wheel drive low, which to me isn't worth the $150-200 it costs for most dual shifters. Then again, I have dual cases so I can put the doubler in with 2wd and thats enough for me. Its up to you whether its worth upgrading to a dual shifter though.

[foxtrot]

I don't think I will yet. just not going to be worth the money for 2 low.

[Haku]

hahaa......should I tempt you with my spare transfer case so you can go with Dual cases too?

[foxtrot]

now thats just mean. I was pricing that out also and I would be able to..... but I dont know lol

[Brody]

I personally don't see the need for a Dual Shifter on a Toyota case.

Me either. I run a lot of trails in 2WD with my front hubs locked in. I need 4WD, I just shift into 4WD whether I am in low range or hi range. Just can't do it on the fly, so I have to come to a stop. Big deal. Coming to a stop from 4-10 mph isn't much...

The only twin stick style shifter that makes any sense is the one where you can disengage the front or rear while in 4WD allowing for front or rear digs, but even this would only be used on the very hardest trails. With three shift levers as it is, I have quite enough.

Save your money for something that makes more practical sense..

[foxtrot]

So I am looking for a quote for some fab work. I am calling hefty fabwork tomorrow to get one from them, but I was going to see if anyone else wanted to jump in on this in case they are too busy right now. so this is what I need:

Two brackest fabbed for my rear bumper mount. these are basically just plate in an s form going from the frame to the rear bumper.
Skid plate for my gas tank
skid plate for my transfer case area that will improve the stock 6"x6" flimsy one lol
Front bumper modified for a winch to mount in. It is an old smitty built bumper, so you would have to cut out the middle section and re-work it (not as important of a project yet)

[Brody]

You are pretty much going to have to supply some pictures or drawings in order to get an accurate quote. Kind of hard to go off of a verbal description.

You are also going to have to be a little more specific on the gas tank skid plate and the T case skid plate.

I do a 3/16" steel gas tank skid that replaces the stock skid plate and also do a sandwich style that overlays the existing one.

If you are going to eventually go to dual T cases, then your best bet is to kick the bucks towards a pre manufactured single/dual t case mount that you can get from Marlin, Front Range Fab, Trail Gear or any one of a number of different sources. These are going to be cheaper than having someone fab one up from scratch unless you want a very simple plate out of heavier stock that the POS stock one.

A picture of the SmittyBilt front bumper would help. It has been awhile since I have messed with or adapted one of these bumpers. If you want a winch, then the winch plates start at around $75 and go up from that and that isn't including adapting them to fit with the bumper.

Happy to work with you on this as I am sure everyone else who fabs stuff on the forum will be, but you are going to have to provide a bit more information. This is kinda like saying I want a 2,000sf house and, no I don't have blue prints....

[foxtrot]

Just ordered a doubler, and a crossmember :D I am going to start tearing down the case I bought from Josh tomorrow, and I have a place here that will cut the dshaft for 65

[foxtrot]

I am installing dual cases in my truck, and once we put them together, we noticed a little bracket was missing from the crawler box. It screws in between the two bearings on the front face of the case and has two metal tabs that look like they hold the bearings down. Does anyone know where to get this part or if Toyota sells it? Yet on every picture of them, I do not see one installed, and in the instructions it does not mention it at all.

[Haku]

hahaa....if its not in the instructions and there are no pictures of it....how do you know its missing?

Toyota may sell it at a dealer, but couldn't say. Only other place is off a donor t-case I would think. Good to hear you are getting it put together though. Thats gonna make a HUGE difference for ya.

Josh

[foxtrot]

ya, the only reason I know it is there, is because it is on my case I pulled out of the truck, just not the crawler box. it is on my friends truck to because we remeber having to feed the c-clip around it.

[Volcom]

http://www.volcom.rockfrogs.org/Buildup/009.JPG

Both my rear case and front reduction box have these bearing retainers

[foxtrot]

well we got the cases in, and everything pput back together. now just waiting on the c-clips for the birf's. ordered them from toyota. she is almost ready to drive!

[foxtrot]

got everything back together now, drove it yesterday. night and day diference. can't wait to get it out on the trails and test it out. I'll get some pics tomorrow

[foxtrot]

did a tune up today to get ready for the anniv. run. replaced plugs, wires, cap and rotor. they deff. needed it, they were sooooo corroded. runs amazing now, and has a lot more power. yay :D

[foxtrot]

got some new parts in tonight :D
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2024/5712482824_88dde983f8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58935950@N02/5712482824/)

lifetime wiper seals
backing plate eliminator
TG inner axle seals
T-scale

Front axle should be ready to be put back together as soon as I get a new knuckle.

[Brody]

You might be better off, since you are going to be doing all the work anyway, to install the Marlin Heavy Duty inner axle seals. These are actually designed to withstand the rigors of hard off road use whereas the TG or factory seals are not.

Not saying that the factory seals don't work and last quite awhile, only that, bang for the buck, the heavy duty seals will last a LOT longer and don't cost much more. Marlin is sometimes on a long back order on these, so you might find yourself doing what I did and rebuilding the axle with the stock seals and getting the Marlin seals about 3 weeks later. Since it is a pretty ugly job, it might be worth checking into.

Also, don't forget to take the square nut off on the front of the knuckle after things are all packed and back together and pump some more grease down into that....Birfields like grease....

Just a suggestion.

[Volcom]

You might be better off, since you are going to be doing all the work anyway, to install the Marlin Heavy Duty inner axle seals. These are actually designed to withstand the rigors of hard off road use whereas the TG or factory seals are not.

Trail Gear now sells a HD inner axle seal. (http://www.trail-gear.com/knuckle-service)

[foxtrot]

these are the ones I got: http://www.trail-gear.com/knuckle-service#inneraxleseal so it is basically TG version of Marlins heavy duty one. I never knew that nut was there until I powerwashed the knuckles yesterday lol. they were just covered in muck and grease. hopefully the lifetime wiper seals will eliminate that, well atlease somewhat.