official word - field behiind Buckley AFB

[scout man]

I was over in that field today testing out my new rear leaves, and I noticed security watching me unusually close today. Short while later here comes a cop across the field towards me. So like a good person, I pulled up to their path and stopped and waited for them (didnt want to look like I was running). The cop said to me "I need you to clear the field right now, the Vice President Joe Biden is coming through here today. As soon as you see the plane take off you can come right on back!" Straight out of the cops mouth. Clearly they have no problem whatsoever about people wheeling in that field. In fact, they were down right cordial about it. Didnt even harass me for my brake lights being stuck on or anything like that. I take that as the go-ahead.

That said, I am sure if people abuse it too much more than they already do the attitude might change, but for now everything seems ok over there. Just dont trash the place like others like to do... not that any of you would.

[Haku]

Good to hear. They shut down I-25 North from Speer and I-70 starting at the I-25 interchange for that. Great timing with him coming through during rush hour.

Suppose its officially part of Buckley AFB grounds then, which is good to hear.

JH

[Jimmy]

Trust me... it is illegal for anyone, other than the owner of the property or anyone with proper permission, to be on that property. Two weeks ago Friday afternoon a police officer was poised to run anyone off who showed up. Previously, one coworker of mine who's property backs up to that piece of property mentioned to coworker #2 that he rarely sees the police back there, so coworker #2 should be fine riding his dirtbike back there. Coworker #2 shows up for the first time, unloads the bike, and before he could even get it started, a police officer told him to leave because that is private property.

If you think the police officer who gave consent will appear in court on your behalf, should you go back there and actually get ticketed for trespassing, then good luck with that.

I have been through this before in another state. Large piece of commercially-owned property, decades of offroaders enjoying it, and (here's the twist) belonging to a club wherein the President said the club had permission to be on the property. Twenty-some vehicle owners were ticketed for trespassing one Saturday morning... I was among them. We all had to appear to court - this wasn't a simple fine in this state... it was a criminal act. The President of the club did the decent thing and asked the court to not punish the club member, but punish him (presumably because he misled many people). Fortunately, the charges were dropped against the rest of us, and I believe he ended up doing community service or something. That club quickly fell apart and faded away.

Trespass at your own risk. It will bite some in the butt.

[Chris]

Trespass at your own risk. It will bite some in the butt.

Well said Jimmy, I'll repeat what I repeatedly have posted: Don't wheel on private property.

[WINKY]

i got hammered for a rc truck on private property, its not worth it.

And if you run, it just compounds the problem and gives the cop something to do.

[1freaky1]

Yes the land behind the base is private property and anytime the base police see someone out there they will call the aurora police, site protection is the basis for it. And in your case Steve it was due to the VP coming in today.

[scout man]

I go over there a couple times a week, as I can literally enter the field 30 ft from my house. I mountain bike over there, I run my dog over there, and I flex out my rig over there. Every time I am there the security drives by on their normal routine, and I have never had the slightest problem. In fact one day I was on my bike right next to the fence, and the security guy waved at me and kept on going. This cop had no problem with it, and I have been there before where I have passed a cop as I was leaving who didnt have any problem with it. People use that field literally on a daily basis, primarily on dirt bikes or trucks, and the only time I have ever seen people have problems is when they are tearing around like mad men or illegally dumping. Had I been racing my rig as fast as I could around the property, the cop my have had a different story, but in my experience if you are respectful to the property and the authority that patrols it, they could care less.

I will continue to use this property, as I have never seen any warnings, posted or verbal, instructing me not to. If anyone ever has a problem with me using this property and says so, I will respectfully explain that to them and inform them I will not come back. I really do not think I will get a ticket. The people who get tickets are the drunken assholes that endanger people and talk back to the cops, not the neighborhood guy who uses the land peacefully. And if I get a ticket, then I have been warned and I will pay the ticket and stop using the land.

Next time I see a cop cruise by my house I am going to flat out ask him what the deal is with that property. Yes there are stories out there of people getting in trouble, but I bet you there is more to the story and a reason those people got in trouble and no one else does.

And Randy, I would never think of running.

I am not condoning wheeling on private property.... so i guess dont go there.

reprimand away.

[Brody]

I will continue to use this property, as I have never seen any warnings, posted or verbal, instructing me not to. If anyone ever has a problem with me using this property and says so, I will respectfully explain that to them and inform them I will not come back. I really do not think I will get a ticket. The people who get tickets are the drunken assholes that endanger people and talk back to the cops, not the neighborhood guy who uses the land peacefully. And if I get a ticket, then I have been warned and I will pay the ticket and stop using the land.

Gotta say I am with you on this one. Don't much care for rumors and rules, especially when they are combined in the same sentence. Kinda like the field over on 68th and Eldridge by me. No signs, really, everyone uses it...private property ...maybe. People, including the government and the FS, need to post signs clearly stating whether something is either open or closed. Most people respect signs. I know I do. If there aren't any signs to the contrary, then it is fair game to me.

[Chris]

If there aren't any signs to the contrary, then it is fair game to me.

No signs in the green space off my living room guys! :D

Steve, I won't reprimand you. I guess I just feel differently about this kind of thing. Just don't whine if you get nailed and spend money on a fine. ;)

[scout man]

no whining here. But if you own land that is used regularly for 4 wheeling and you dont want people 4 wheeling, all you gotta do is post one sign, and I wont step foot back on the property again. I personally have never had any experience leading me to beleive I shouldnt be there, including speaking to cops on the property that dont seem to have a problem with me being there. If I get a fine, then I get a fine and I will know the answer then. Been a lot of chances for me to get that fine though and it has never happened. There are also well established roads on that property, and I never travel off them. So unless that green space off your living room has a road through it, there is no risk of me driving on it.

[Chris]

:thunb:

[scout man]

then again, I have driven in my front yard... i dont think the neighbors wold be happy if I cut a road there though :D Gotta load stuff into the back shed somehow right?

[JeffX]

Trust me... it is illegal for anyone, other than the owner of the property or anyone with proper permission, to be on that property. Two weeks ago Friday afternoon a police officer was poised to run anyone off who showed up. Previously, one coworker of mine who's property backs up to that piece of property mentioned to coworker #2 that he rarely sees the police back there, so coworker #2 should be fine riding his dirtbike back there. Coworker #2 shows up for the first time, unloads the bike, and before he could even get it started, a police officer told him to leave because that is private property.

If you think the police officer who gave consent will appear in court on your behalf, should you go back there and actually get ticketed for trespassing, then good luck with that.

I have been through this before in another state. Large piece of commercially-owned property, decades of offroaders enjoying it, and (here's the twist) belonging to a club wherein the President said the club had permission to be on the property. Twenty-some vehicle owners were ticketed for trespassing one Saturday morning... I was among them. We all had to appear to court - this wasn't a simple fine in this state... it was a criminal act. The President of the club did the decent thing and asked the court to not punish the club member, but punish him (presumably because he misled many people). Fortunately, the charges were dropped against the rest of us, and I believe he ended up doing community service or something. That club quickly fell apart and faded away.

Trespass at your own risk. It will bite some in the butt.


Sounds like a spot near me. The owner (developer from TX) was here and told several locals that he didn't care if we used his land, since it wasn't slated for any new work. However, some jacka$$e$ have dumped some rubbish up there and I'm not too sure about the legitimacy of the area. I don't have a problem with folks who wheel on vacant (non-posted) land at their own risk.

That said, I think folks need to follow a different set of rules when in the NF. Basically the rule should be the opposite. Don't tread UNLESS there's a carsonite arrow.

We have idiots all over the place here 'blazing' new trails because there's no sign against it. The FS can't sign the entire NF! Basically they've done a great job trying to block illegal sidetrails and add markers to legitimate ones. For every one ranger there's 100 drunken rednecks trying to ruin it for everybody.

I just got this to help:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cZf9ULvNL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Jimmy]

Like I said, people had been using the particular property of which I spoke for DECADES with only the occasional running off by police. This place was a dumping ground for stolen vehicles; not much trash dumping was going on. The owners are not required by law (in that state) to have no trespassing signs posted; I have no idea what the laws in CO are on that issue. Regardless, I live by a simple bit of logic after my experience: if I don't own the land and/or don't have proper legal permission to use such private property, then I don't use it. Just because there's no sign does not make it right for me to be on the property. To each their own...

Here's the real kicker to the situation I went through (I forgot this point): The police department used the internet to determine when our club would be on the property. The run was posted. The police read it. They showed up early and waited for the club to show up. They even showed us the letter from the corporate lawyer who worked for the corporation that owned the land in which the company demanded that the police enforce the trespassing laws in regards to their property (that was interesting to me - makes me think the corporation had some pull with the local gov't).

So, post up all you like about how you don't get a darn about the legality of your wheeling. Just know offroaders aren't the only ones reading the posts.

[JeffX]

....I have no idea what the laws in CO are on that issue....

The law is that trespassing is not enforced unless the owner posts signs or complains about it. Dumping is always illegal.

That doesn't make 'vacant lot wheeling' legitimate. It just means that people might get away with it.

I personally, don't take issue with it. Anyone doing it either has permission or does so at their own risk.

People who go off trail in the National forest, however, need to have the book thrown at them. They are the ones getting out trails closed.

.

[scout man]

I would never post a run to go to the property, or ever make a big deal about going. I go to test out my rig after doing some work to it, that is all. I certainly would not go there in a large group as you are asking for unwanted attention.


So, post up all you like about how you don't get a darn about the legality of your wheeling.

This I take issue with. Never did I say I dont give a darn about the legality of it. In fact, I specifically said that if I ever find out I am not supposed to be there (not just on rumors) then I will never step foot there again. One sign telling me to keep off, and I will keep off. One police officer asking me to leave, and NOT inviting me back, and I will leave and not return. I am not for illegal wheeling ever, whether in city limits or on the mountains. I stay on the trail, I clean up after myself, and I dont drive past a sign that tells me I shouldnt be there (unless on a numbered FS road that someone tried to make look private). I am a law abiding citizen.

I really feel this whole topic is being blown way out of proportion and frankly perpetuating rumors. We all agree you stay on the trail in the NF and whatnot, I think it is time to agree to disagree on the "private" land issue.



Jeffx - I totally agree with all your posts there. And yes, people who are blazing their own trails in the NF need to get the book thrown at them, everytime, and rather harshly IMO.

[Roostercruiser]

there used to be a field by 72 and Leyden rd we usded to usess all the time it had 2 mud pitz and hills and was a great place to wheel that was close to Leyden lake off of that road between bouldr and golden in Arvada. Then one day they closed it off and built houses on it.

[RockyMtnHigh]

So all this goes back to the old saying, "better to ask for forgiveness than permission."

Me personally, I would be asking for permission (and have it in writing from the owner) before setting foot on it. Sure there's others using it, which brings another old saying to mind, "if they all jumped off a cliff, would you?" No one seems to care right now, base security or local PD, simply because they don't own it and the owner who probably lives in some high rise some where has no clue what's going on, because if they did, they would know they are liable for someone's injuries and or damage out there.

Slippery slope if you ask me, you're saying, "well there's nothing posted keep off and I will keep using it (not knowing if I really should be) until I am told otherwise." I think we all know what the responsible and right thing to do (or maybe not), it's not yours, stay off it, until someone tells you otherwise, not the other way around. While there may not be signs posted "stay off" there's also no signs that say "open space for public use."

Using your logic, public parks, there's no signs posted "no vehicles" and who's to say that path that people walk on can't be used for vehicle, it's wide enough and it begins and ends at a public street. Should we all be using such areas in the same fashion as well?

Today's society, you need to be told with a sign that something is wrong! :lmao:

[JeffX]

Using your logic, public parks, there's no signs posted "no vehicles" and who's to say that path that people walk on can't be used for vehicle, it's wide enough and it begins and ends at a public street. Should we all be using such areas in the same fashion as well?

No. Public Parks all have a documented policy that specifies where motor vehicles are permitted. Also, regional laws prohibit driving on sidewalks. Driving on private property (dirtpiles and mudpits) is a gray area if not posted.


Then one day they closed it off and built houses on it.

Yup, that's what happens. A once-unconcerned developer closes it off as soon as they need it.

My most recent experience with this was pulling out a TJ on 35s stuck in one of these situations. It was a deep-a$$, clay mudpit.


Trespassing is a legal term that can refer to a wide variety of offenses against a person or against property. Trespassing as it relates to real estate law means entering onto land without consent of the landowner. ........the trespasser must not simply unwittingly traverse another's land but must knowingly go onto the property without permission. Knowledge may be inferred when the owner tells the trespasser not to go on the land, when the land is fenced, or when a "no trespassing" sign in posted. A trespasser would probably not be prosecuted if the land was open, the trespasser's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property, and the trespasser left immediately on request.

This is why open, unposted land gets used with impunity.

[Chris]

No one seems to care right now, base security or local PD, simply because they don't own it and the owner who probably lives in some high rise some where has no clue what's going on

It's part of Buckley AFB so it's gov't owned.

[scout man]

It's part of Buckley AFB so it's gov't owned.

Do you know that for sure?? I have always wondered. I would have thought if Buckley owned it they would have extended their fence around it.

[Chris]

No but thought Kyle had told us is was but don't trust my memory, I don't. :erm:

[Pathrat]

Interesting discussion. Two different topics though, I think. Public land use and private land use, with some overlapping use questions.

Idiots on quads down in the Goblin Valley area and other locals in that vicinity seem to think that they can do what they want as it is public land. I would not mind dialing in my sights on some when I drive on the designated trail and see some numbnuts has put tracks all over the hillsides and over the crypto-crust. My mom was telling me that some yahoo local sheriff led a group of ATVs down there on a "We'll do what we want!" run to show their ignorant view that running all over creation was a God-given right. That is one extreme, but what rule guides what we do? There are no signs every ten feet saying stay on the trail. We all just know that is what you do.

On privately owned land, especially up in the mountains, we often see signs that say No Trespassing Keep Out. We abide by them. However, there are often no signs saying keep out on smaller tracts of land, like the one I have used on 68th. I know it is not my land. I have seen others playing on it with their rigs. There are no signs. Am I there legally? Probably not. Is it 'right' for me to go there without permission? Probably not. If I was told not to or the field had some new keep out signs planted on it, I would not drive into it. It seems to be an ok place to go, periodically, and if we behave, we can possibly reduce the chance of the field being closed or patrolled. If I get a ticket, I will pay it.

Sometimes you need the sign to clear up ambiguity. Sometimes you should just know how to behave and what to do to keep a place open. Sometimes, you just need to pony up for the consequences of less than legal use.

[KnuckleHead]

All I have to say.... use common sense.

[1freaky1]

I looked at the base's aerial map here at work that we have hanging on the wall in our shop and I am wondering if this land is not the property just on the south/west corner of the base behind the houses? There are what appears to be some trails in that area, on the east side of the base is farm land and this is the area I was talking about being private land.

[Hypoid]

I am wondering if this land is not the property just on the south/west corner of the base behind the houses? That is the area in question, right where Missippi Ave. curves around and becomes Tower Rd.

[1freaky1]

Thanks Mike, hey why aren't you at work buddy?

[sunk]

Sketchy...I would like to think that if there are no signs posted it is free game, but my experience is that never works out and you can get in a ton of trouble...ive been in trouble before and it sucked.

[Jimmy]

Some time ago (can't remember how far back; likely two or more years ago) there was a large (like 4 foot by 6 foot) for sale sign on the property - large enough to see it from Mississippi Ave (before it turns south and becomes Dunkirk St.). It got my attention, so I turned off to take a look (I wondered initially if it was a no trespassing sign). Don't know how long the sign was up, as it's no longer there. It's not owned by the gov't.

Recently had a conversation with the same coworker I mentioned earlier who had a passing thought of buying the property and turning it into a small pay-to-play area. I suspect that the usage would fall off to near nothing if someone tried to charge (even a tiny fee) for its use.

[Jimmy]

Quick hybrid shot of the property under discussion:

[Chris]

Proves me wrong but I still won't use it. ;)

[scout man]

Recently had a conversation with the same coworker I mentioned earlier who had a passing thought of buying the property and turning it into a small pay-to-play area. I suspect that the usage would fall off to near nothing if someone tried to charge (even a tiny fee) for its use.


x2 Granted, I would probably pay like $2 or so to go flex out my rig, just because it is so close to home and there is really no where around to flex stuff (no loading docks or anything). And I imagine the dirt bikers would pay about the same since they have a track out there and everything, and it beats driving to the mountains... but at that rate it would probably take you a good 50 years at least to make back your initial investment. I just walked my dog over that way and there were at least 12 dirtbikes out there running the track. But yea, to even have a chance of being profitable you would probably have to build it up, such as a real dirtbike track or two, and some real 4x4 obstacles. Not worth it.

PS. in the pic Jimmy posted the small circle-ish thing in the very top right is the dirtbike track they buit. Looks to me like someone had to have had a tractor back there to do it since it has actual banked turns and stuff... but i dont know, maybe that stuff builds itself over time.

[JeffX]

This is the area I mentioned:

North of Sonderman:

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=sonderman%20park&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/8/0/080770c45f43bee417ca10cf589328e9.png)

[Brody]

On privately owned land, especially up in the mountains, we often see signs that say No Trespassing Keep Out. We abide by them. However, there are often no signs saying keep out on smaller tracts of land, like the one I have used on 68th. I know it is not my land. I have seen others playing on it with their rigs. There are no signs. Am I there legally? Probably not. Is it 'right' for me to go there without permission? Probably not. If I was told not to or the field had some new keep out signs planted on it, I would not drive into it. It seems to be an ok place to go, periodically, and if we behave, we can possibly reduce the chance of the field being closed or patrolled. If I get a ticket, I will pay it.

Sometimes you need the sign to clear up ambiguity. Sometimes you should just know how to behave and what to do to keep a place open. Sometimes, you just need to pony up for the consequences of less than legal use.

X2. Use common sense. If you get popped, don't whine and simply man up.

I got popped a few years back at the old Molly Gulch Campground in Pike National Forest. Due to the Hayman Fire, the regular access roads were washed out. Was there a sign saying the campground was closed? No. We simply drove through the wash out and camped in the camp ground. A sheriff and some FS folks wandered down to where we were, fined us, and made us move our camp. No whining on our part. We just paid the fine.

[colomil]

Here is some advice. Look up the owner via the county assessor office http://www.co.arapahoe.co.us/Apps/ParcelSearch/PropList.aspx?AddressName=louisiana+ave and ask them for written permission to use the land. If it is government/military property, be careful as the laws of DOD override the local laws.

[Jimmy]

Here is some advice. Look up the owner via the county assessor office http://www.co.arapahoe.co.us/Apps/ParcelSearch/PropList.aspx?AddressName=louisiana+ave and ask them for written permission to use the land. If it is government/military property, be careful as the laws of DOD override the local laws.

I didn't have any luck with that tool. I checked both E Louisiana Ave and E Mississippi Ave.

[Chris]

C'mon Jimmy, look at each of the 47 pages of listing, maybe it's listed differently! :eek:

[colomil]

The assessor system of that county is not very user friendly. I like the El Paso county site because you can look at a map and actually click the property that you want info on. I would email the assessor office and ask them about the address since the website is lacking.

[Jimmy]

C'mon Jimmy, look at each of the 47 pages of listing, maybe it's listed differently! :eek:


The assessor system of that county is not very user friendly. I like the El Paso county site because you can look at a map and actually click the property that you want info on. I would email the assessor office and ask them about the address since the website is lacking.

:LOL: No thanks Chris. I actually did a pull based on block numbers. The listings for E Louisiana jump from west of Mississippi near the property to way out east of E470 in Murphy's Creek. Did the same for Mississippi and no luck.

I agree Greg, the system isn't all that user friendly. But, I didn't spend much time messing with it.... maybe someone with more interest in it can have some success with it.

[scout man]

So, for anyone who may ever choose to use this, I would stay away for right now. There was a rollover (I think) accident out there today with a LOT of cops, firetrucks, and ambulances. If you are ever going to get a ticket out there, it is probably in the next few days i would think.

[Chris]

So if someone got hurt (hope not) they can sue the land owner...

[scout man]

yea, hard to say with this one. They did take someone away in an ambulance, I saw them loading the person up, but they didnt seem to be in any huge hurry at all.

I was working in the driveway and saw the top of a red vehicle of some sort out in the field with like 4 guys milling around it for a while. I thought it was strange where they were and for how long, but not strange enough to think a whole lot about it. Then I looked up later that there were a bunch of lights so i walked over to take a closer look. I saw 5 cop cars, a fire truck, and ambulance, 2 marked SUVs, one which was fire chief and couldnt identify the other... my neighbor said at the entrance to the field there was another ambulance, fire truck, and 2 cop cars. There were out there for a long time too, but no one seemed to be in much of a hurry. Hard to guess at what happened, but from a distance the car looked a bit messed up and they towed it away. I am guessing rollover, as they were in the middle of the field with nothing to hit. That many cops tho makes me wonder if it was stolen, but it probably wrapped up a bit too quickly for that.

[Zatticus]

Huhh,'
Well.
On a different note.
Is there any mud there?

Annnd, Next time you go out there, mind if I take my truck out there with you?

[scout man]

there is always mud there somewhere... arent you just 2wd?

[Chris]

That's why he wants you there. ;)

[scout man]

I hope he has tow hooks!! Trust me, straps through the door frames wont leave your car too happy! :D

I added earlier, but lost internet before i could post:
Maybe I should take the fiances saturn Ion out there with you.. you know, to level the playing field :D

[Chris]

Maybe I should take the fiances saturn Ion out there with you.. you know, to level the playing field

:lmao:

[dustytrader]

http://gis.co.arapahoe.co.us/arapamaplite/?PARCEL=1975-22-1-00-006

Not sure of exact area you guys are talking about, but this map should tell you who owns each section there. Some is owned by Dunkirk Properties and some is owned by the US. Click on areas and it will pop up who owns particular areas. I use county GIS Mapping in my job, so let me know if I can help further

[dustytrader]

click the "Aerial" button on top to get the actual view instead of the generic map view

[Jimmy]

Nice Dusty! One portion (closest to Mississippi) is owned by Colorado Hunt Club LLC and the other portion (which backs/corners to the AFB's property) is owned by Dunkirk Properties LLC.

[Jimmy]

Some time ago (can't remember how far back; likely two or more years ago) there was a large (like 4 foot by 6 foot) for sale sign on the property - large enough to see it from Mississippi Ave (before it turns south and becomes Dunkirk St.). It got my attention, so I turned off to take a look (I wondered initially if it was a no trespassing sign). Don't know how long the sign was up, as it's no longer there. It's not owned by the gov't.

Looks like my memory isn't as bad as I think... the portion of land that this sign faced changed hands in Dec 2007... for $850,000!

I think it'd take quite awhile to make up the purchase price by charging a couple of bucks for its offroading use.

[Zatticus]

I hope he has tow hooks!! Trust me, straps through the door frames wont leave your car too happy!

How hard is it to weld on some tow hooks?
;p

And nmudding is best in 2wd.
Unless you get stu\ck

[AccordRanger]

How hard is it to weld on some tow hooks?
;p

And nmudding is best in 2wd.
Unless you get stu\ck

Just goto the junk yard and grab some chevy, yota, or ford tow hooks. Then bolt them to your frame.

[scout man]

or weld them on. You will probably have to cut some holes through your plastic tho.

[Zatticus]

or weld them on. You will probably have to cut some holes through your plastic tho.


My bumper looks like it's gonna fall off soon anyways.
XD


So, should I bolt them on or weld them on?
Which ones easier?\

And front or back?

Actually, should I just bolt them on if I plan on taking them off eventually?

[scout man]

If you intend to take your truck off of pavement, you need to have suitable and strong tow hooks on both the front and rear. You cant expect anyone to ever get you out of a situation if you are not prepared for it by at least having recovery points. If I come up to a truck that knowingly went into a mud hole or on a trail with no recovery points, and there isnt and easy and safe place to hook to, then I am just driving on about my way. You cant assume you can always be pulled out forward, or always backwards. If thats the case, most people will just shake their head and go about their way. Especially with a 2wd truck.

[Zatticus]

So, I need front and back ones, both. Right?


But, would bolt on tow hooks be strong enough?

[scout man]

If they are bolted on correctly. My F150s came with them bolted on and they have seen some serious serious abuse without any problems.

[Zatticus]

Awesome,

If I got some, anybody be willing to help me get them bolted on correctly?
: D

[Fordguy77]

Maybe I should take the fiances saturn Ion out there with you.. you know, to level the playing field
Brings back high school memories of mudding my friends Saturn SC1, funny thing was it went right through the mud, his lifted built jimmy on the other hand just sank :rolleyes:

[Wrustywrangler]

I know guys that have gone there for years which is how I heard of it , and also I am not so sure that the land will be built on any time soon...If you look at the field and the roads that go along the fence There is a good 1/4 mile from the fence to any house or building..Its probably a security risk for the base to have anyone being able to hide behind closed doors and spy or plot! It would be awesome if some how we could contact the owner and see about cleaning the area up and possible working out a deal to place a HUGE ROCK GARDEN!! I am dreaming though =)

[Brody]

It would be awesome if some how we could contact the owner and see about cleaning the area up and possible working out a deal to place a HUGE ROCK GARDEN!! I am dreaming though =)

Priced any huge landscape rocks lately?

Pretty much bottom line on this stuff: If it isn't posted, drive on it at your own risk. Don't piss and moan if you get ticketed. Your very own personal call.

It would also be a very good idea NOT to post ANY areas where there is ANY doubt about the legalities of driving on property. It will be either posted or not posted as to access and, once again, it is the individual's call. Still shouldn't be posted on the forum if the area is in question.

[Lysmachia]

If you intend to take your truck off of pavement, you need to have suitable and strong tow hooks on both the front and rear. You cant expect anyone to ever get you out of a situation if you are not prepared for it by at least having recovery points. If I come up to a truck that knowingly went into a mud hole or on a trail with no recovery points, and there isn't and easy and safe place to hook to, then I am just driving on about my way. You cant assume you can always be pulled out forward, or always back wards. If thats the case, most people will just shake their head and go about their way. Especially with a 2wd truck.

Also you should provide your own recovery strap and a few shackles as well as at the very least a high-lift. And I am NOT talking about the crappy $20 yellow "tow straps" from Vato Zone with hooks on them. Those do not have any "give" and will easily break and can damage the vehicles. It is the stuck persons responsibility to have proper recovery gear and to muddy up their own gear. If for some reason you don't have said gear, be prepared to offer a tug fee reward... ($$)

I know I am preaching to the choir. I think we all know this. But I will say IMHO Mud = Breakage! Not my bag baby! :D

Lastly be very careful about posting pics of a big mud stuck on private land. Some bone-heads on Colo4x4.org were hunted down due to their bragging and pics, and fined by the forest service and rightfully so, because they really tore up the mud pits they were in. While up in Steamboat years back near Buffalo pass a guy begged me to pull him out of a marshy meadow that he TRASHED. I politely declined and then a little further up the road flagged down a ranger and told him where to find the culprit. He only had to pay a $1000 fine for what will take at least 5 years of restoration... But again, if it is given a green light, who am I to judge?

[scout man]

But I will say IMHO Mud = Breakage! Not my bag baby!

You have to get yours in the mud to break it?? I am jealous!!! :D:bowdown:

[Lysmachia]

You have to get yours in the mud to break it?? I am jealous!!! :D:bowdown:

LMAO! Good one. No I just have to look at my truck funny to have it be undriveable for 2 years....